Your experience with various coilers

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by project86

Ted. I really just plan on spirited street driving and maybe some occasional track use (autox or road racing) if the opportunity presents itself.

IF that's how the car will be used, THEN...

Originally Posted by RETed

Start with a set of KYB AGX's - these are the best bang-for-the-buck shocks for the FC...


-Ted

^Go with this, and a few other suspension bits you'll be super happy. I use my FC the same as you, and my setup started with the KYB AGX's. At the same time I put those in, I installed a set of Racing Beat springs, and later on replaced most of the stock bushings with the Energy Suspension polyurethane replacements (i.e, stabilizer bar bushings, front/rear control arms, etc.). Also added the Racing Beat "DTSS eliminator" bushings, because it felt like the stock DTSS bushings were worn out, and made the rear end handle unpredictably at the limits.

I'm still on stock wheels & tire sizes, and am very happy with this setup.

[project86]

Originally Posted by Pete_89T2

^Go with this, and a few other suspension bits you'll be super happy. I use my FC the same as you, and my setup started with the KYB AGX's. At the same time I put those in, I installed a set of Racing Beat springs, and later on replaced most of the stock bushings with the Energy Suspension polyurethane replacements (i.e, stabilizer bar bushings, front/rear control arms, etc.). Also added the Racing Beat "DTSS eliminator" bushings, because it felt like the stock DTSS bushings were worn out, and made the rear end handle unpredictably at the limits.

I'm still on stock wheels & tire sizes, and am very happy with this setup.

So... this is where i might sound silly....... but i want the to be able to make the car as low as I feel like. Im not one of the "hella flush" fan boys or anything but i do like to aggressive look of a low FC and I'm not planning on running stock size/offset wheels. I am about to replace all the suspension bushings with the same kit and getting the rear toe steer eliminator bushings.

Would you mind posting some pictures of what your car looks like with your set up?

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by project86

Would you mind posting some pictures of what your car looks like with your set up?

Here you go... this was at DGRR, last year or year before, forget which but same suspension & stock wheels.

[RETed]

Originally Posted by project86

So... this is where i might sound silly....... but i want the to be able to make the car as low as I feel like. Im not one of the "hella flush" fan boys or anything but i do like to aggressive look of a low FC and I'm not planning on running stock size/offset wheels. I am about to replace all the suspension bushings with the same kit and getting the rear toe steer eliminator bushings.

Watch out...

The FC doesn't like going that low without running into major camber problems, especially in the rear.
An (upright) rear camber adjust rod will only take out so much (negative) camber in the rear.
Even with the adjustable links on the front of the rear subframe, you end up smacking the whole thing on compression.
Pete_89T2's pic looks like it has a smidgen too much camber in the rear, or it's a weird illusion of the pic due to the compression of the suspension due to the turn...

You'd get away with about 2 - 3 "fingers" of gap in the rear before there is really too much (negative) camber.
Remember, rear camber hurts your straight-line acceleration due to inefficient contact patch of the rear tires (upon acceleration).
It also causes uneven tire wear back there.

Fronts are no problem due to almost any off-the-shelf front camber plates can dial it all out.
It's still a bit problem in the rear on really drastic drops...


-Ted

[project86]

Originally Posted by RETed

Watch out...

The FC doesn't like going that low without running into major camber problems, especially in the rear.
An (upright) rear camber adjust rod will only take out so much (negative) camber in the rear.
Even with the adjustable links on the front of the rear subframe, you end up smacking the whole thing on compression.
Pete_89T2's pic looks like it has a smidgen too much camber in the rear, or it's a weird illusion of the pic due to the compression of the suspension due to the turn...

You'd get away with about 2 - 3 "fingers" of gap in the rear before there is really too much (negative) camber.
Remember, rear camber hurts your straight-line acceleration due to inefficient contact patch of the rear tires (upon acceleration).
It also causes uneven tire wear back there.

Fronts are no problem due to almost any off-the-shelf front camber plates can dial it all out.
It's still a bit problem in the rear on really drastic drops...


-Ted

EDIT: just remembered Mazdatrix sells rear camber links to adjust it... im unsure what the mechanical limits are though.

[chibikougan]

Originally Posted by project86

EDIT: just remembered Mazdatrix sells rear camber links to adjust it... im unsure what the mechanical limits are though.

Thats why mine was so low short stroke coilers and I had AWR eerything in the arse lateral links spherical bearings etc.

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by RETed

Pete_89T2's pic looks like it has a smidgen too much camber in the rear, or it's a weird illusion of the pic due to the compression of the suspension due to the turn...

^I noticed that in the picture too, and wondered why it looked that way. I always assumed it's just the lateral-G loading combined with the wavy road surface crowning. The RB springs I have are supposed to lower the car about 3/4", but when I measured the difference (from subframe rails to my garage floor), the difference was only about 1/4" lower than with my stock springs & shocks. Granted, the stock springs were likely worn out and sagging when I replaced them.

[chibikougan]

Originally Posted by Pete_89T2

^I noticed that in the picture too, and wondered why it looked that way. I always assumed it's just the lateral-G loading combined with the wavy road surface crowning. The RB springs I have are supposed to lower the car about 3/4", but when I measured the difference (from subframe rails to my garage floor), the difference was only about 1/4" lower than with my stock springs & shocks. Granted, the stock springs were likely worn out and sagging when I replaced them.

Haha the dreaded worn out spension lift when replaced....

[infernosg]

If you stick with the stock rear subframe-to-body bushings you can actually run three "camber-correcting" devices at the same time: the adjustable "vertical link", the individual camber adjusters (think AWR), and Whiteline (I think) has some offset upper polyurethance bushings for the rear hubs.

My rear isn't too (coils are at the maximum height) low but like Ted said the negative camber can quickly get out of hand. I have delrin subframe-to-body bushings so I can't use an adjustable vertical link to correct camber. I have the AWR individual adjusters and I'm seriously considering the Whiteline bushings.

FWIW, I think Whiteline also has offset bushings for the rear of the front control arms to increase caster.

[project86]

Originally Posted by chibikougan

Thats why mine was so low short stroke coilers and I had AWR eerything in the arse lateral links spherical bearings etc.

Stop making fun of my grammar mistake.... or else....

Originally Posted by infernosg

If you stick with the stock rear subframe-to-body bushings you can actually run three "camber-correcting" devices at the same time: the adjustable "vertical link", the individual camber adjusters (think AWR), and Whiteline (I think) has some offset upper polyurethance bushings for the rear hubs.

My rear isn't too (coils are at the maximum height) low but like Ted said the negative camber can quickly get out of hand. I have delrin subframe-to-body bushings so I can't use an adjustable vertical link to correct camber. I have the AWR individual adjusters and I'm seriously considering the Whiteline bushings.

FWIW, I think Whiteline also has offset bushings for the rear of the front control arms to increase caster.

Do you have pics of your set up? Do you think i'd be missing out by not replacing the subframe to body bushings?

[chibikougan]

but i like the coilers.....

[infernosg]

Originally Posted by project86

Do you have pics of your set up?

These are the only pictures I have of the AWR pieces.

Stock on left, AWR on right:



Installed on the car:



With the Stance coilovers at the highest setting (any taller and the strut body would pop out) I have the AWR pieces max'd out (at their shortest setting) and I'm a little under (over?) one degree of negative camber in the rear. Like Ted said this causes the upper part of the bolt to hit the body under compression. Because of that I've cut off ~1/4" of the bolt for a little more clearance.

Originally Posted by project86

Do you think i'd be missing out by not replacing the subframe to body bushings?

Given the age of the car I'd at least replace them with OEM parts. There isn't a "Mazdaspeed" option for the subframe-to-body bushings like there is for the engine, transmission, and differential so there's no middle ground between the "soft" stock bushings and "solid" aftermarket ones.

[project86]

Do you have a picture of your car?

[infernosg]

Originally Posted by project86

Do you have a picture of your car?

That car is long gone but here are some pictures from around that time. I was able to get more camber out of the rear after these pictures as I mentioned above.

[project86]

Man.. so i guess people that have their FCs pretty low had to modify the rear to get it to work correctly? which bolt exactly did you have to cut?