Ideas for swaps other than a V8.

85rx-7gsl-se · 03-11-2008, 12:30 PM

Exhaust is on the front since they are all transverse mounted so in an FR it would be on the driver's side

oorx7 · 03-11-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85rx-7gsl-se

Exhaust is on the front since they are all transverse mounted so in an FR it would be on the driver's side

That's what I thought. This is the only down fall I see with the SR20 as well.

The 4G's exhaust will end up on the passenger side, which would make it easier for steering rack clearence.

oorx7 · 03-11-2008, 12:57 PM

We built this 3sgte, http://www.cj-motorsports.com/galmr2.htm , This was a cool build. Funny thing is, before this motor was purchased by the MR2 owner, it was offered to me. My FD had a blown motor at the time

.

warwickben · 03-11-2008, 03:50 PM

85rx-7gsl-se its cool you know about the 2.3l turbo motor.
P71 the heads are not that hard to find.me and my buddy are rebuilding a 1984 rs turbo capri. paid 220 tho my dads work, loaded head cam's ect.
finding the old after market ford big bore head is hard.the new ford racing heads are really made by esslinger. theres http://www.esslingeracing.com they make all most every thing for the motor and will mod there head to work for what you want.

we have 3 motors for the car right now. the stock 2.3 that came in the car. the 302 with a 4 speed(giving away for free) that the guy we got the car from was swapping in and gave up. also we got another 2.3 from a b2300 ill talk about this in a bit.

alot of people say a full 2.3 weighs the same as a 302. stock for stock i dont believe this is true. me and my friend where able to pic the motor and trans up, we couldnt do the same for the 302.

the stock motor we fully built up custom piston's , t3/t4 turbo fmic, gutted and knifed edge in take ect ect.
full cost of fixing the blown motor machine work and head was around 1.5k$ thats include clutch setup.

the second 2.3 that we got out of a b2300 where converting it to dohc.
theres a a bunch of mustangs that have done this. you need a volvo 16v head

.the hardiest part of this is welding a block of metal on the back side of the head and slotting a few oil holes in the head. then get the head fly cut so it sits flat other then that its basically a bolt on job. o yeah you need to run one external oil line.

on a na motor it adds 100 hp. so if you convert a na 2.3 to a dohc its all most making the same power of a stock turbo 2.3. also a na motor with this head swap make more power then the v8 from some years

.

am not making this up and will post links if you want to see how its done, i did leave out little minor things but its not that hard.

P71 · 03-11-2008, 03:58 PM

Yes, turbo heads with hardened seats, larger ports, and Inconel exhaust valves ARE dried up. Of course you can still find wimpy N/A heads all day long. Takes over $500 just to get them to stock turbo head levels.

Esslinger's heads are aluminum, and start at $1500. Not exactly "budget friendly" considering that's what a PAIR of 302 AFR's go for.

Have you ever weighed a 2.3T? It's almost exactly an EFI 302. A carb'd 302 is even lighter.

The Volvo swap is cool, but it takes a LOT more work then you realize. It's also heavy.

Bottom line is, it's a 1960's designed engine, that weighs too much, and has barely any aftermarket support for the turbo versions. It's just all wrong for swapping into RX-7's, and frankly, too expensive to modify period. For the money you have in what is going to be a 250HP engine you could have a 300+HP 302 and still weigh less.

85rx-7gsl-se · 03-11-2008, 04:10 PM

Cool, but my real question P71, what is your 2.3 motor for

P71 · 03-11-2008, 04:50 PM

Hehehe..

I've been into the 2.3T's for about 8 years. I built a 14-second full-weight (3800#) Turbo Coupe among others.

I have a 2.3T that I'm putting together for a guy in Indiana. He has the 1987 Watkins Glen Pace Car, it's an 87 Turbo Coupe. It's getting a bigger cam, bigger turbo, porting, etc, etc, but it's all going to look factory restoration concourse stock. Basically it will put out about 280-300HP and look completely original from the engine bay (you'll be able to see the larger turbo and exhaust from underneath).

It's my last hurrah at 2.3's. It took FIVE "good" turbo heads to get this one together.

warwickben · 03-11-2008, 04:53 PM

first , iam not picking a fight and i dont have a problem with you.iam just posting the info that i have gotten from restoring the rs turbo capri from the ground up.

Esslinger's heads i agree with you not worth the money.yeah they flow more then a stock turbo head but if you have a good core you can spend less money on a port job to do the same.(depending on the person porting) the reason i say that is because two people in my capri club tested it out. one had a esslinger head and one had a stock turbo head . they both sent them to a head porter and he was able to get the stock head to flow the same amount.

the pre d port heads are extremely hard to find but the d ports are better any ways.my step dad works for jack young auto, they mainly sell to fleet's. like ups, fed ex, the police , cab drivers ect and garages. if you bring your car to a shop and they replace some thing there's a good chance they get the parts from him. when i worked there we sent stuff to cali Seattle ect ect.

we had the stock head magna flux(is that spelt right) and it was cracked. he got the head at his cost for 220$ with cam's and valves 2 days after i asked him to get it.before you ask yes its a real turbo head, not a na. the place they got it from said they had close to 200 ready to be shipped out and more that are waiting rebuild they said they havnt gotten a call in some time asking for one. so there not that hard to find just need some one who can buy them from a ford re builder. most are in Canada believe it or not.

pulse ford racing still sells heads to.

like i said i didnt list all the info on the volvo head swap ive been researching it for some time. its not that hard to do but it can become over whelming fast at times.need to take baby steps. all so i didn't have a scale but from me lifting the Volvo head which is aluminum and the 2.3 turbo head which is iron. to me the Volvo was lighter. maybe it was my mind tricking me in to thinking it.

the stock 2.3 turbo motor made close to 220 hp at 8psi depending on what car it was in.the v8 made a little less the same years the turbo 2.3 was offered. i didn't list all of the stuff we did to the motor.
the motor was blown need to have the deck fly cut and bored out. so i think going from a blown motor to a fully built motor for 1500$ is cheap.
there are a few guys that did every thing we did to our motor and are running
the motor at over 30 psi safely. one person had his car shown in modified mustangs and that where me and my buddy got the idea to buy the capri off the guy i work with and fully restore it. had no floor's ect ect if it was not a 1984 rs turbo capri we would of just got the motor and got a mustang shell.

where not going to run it at that high of a level of boost because we want it street able but well be around 20 psi+
other people in our club are running around 20 pounds of boost and didn't do half of the stuff we did,and there motors are safe. most are making 350 pulse.
the only person in our club that has the same setup but in a mustang is making well over 400 hp rwhp. he took a black marker to his dyno slip to hide what hes really making and wont tell how much boost.

too expensive to modify(i don't believe so).
there is after market support. yeah some things youll have to make your self but if you know where to look you can get it.
ecu= mega squirter, sds ect ect.
intake manifold= 40bob.com or you port and rotate it your self, like i did.
turbo manifold= 40bob.com or make you own. theres a few others making them tho.
custom piston's = diamond.
stroker crank = esslinger, connecting rods for stroker with there crank any 350 sbc which there is ton's of.

i dont have a feeling about putting one in a rx7. i wouldn't put one in my rx7.
i just posted here because the ford turbo 2.3 was talked about.and its not every day you meet some one with a rx and knows about the 2.3 well at least in my age group 22.

again i am not fighting you , i dont think bad of you in any way.
i do not want to start a fight. i do not want to be flamed. iam just posting all the info i have learned from restoring the capri.

warwickben · 03-11-2008, 04:57 PM

i started to wright that befor you posted you last post p71. again i was not trying to start a fight just posting what i have learned about this motor in the last year and half. i belive you about the weight of the motor. i forgot we didnt have every thing on 2.3 when we lifted it up.

sorry and i dont want to get on your bad side.

P71 · 03-11-2008, 05:35 PM

Not flaming you man, and I can appreciate the "excitement" of learning a new engine, but you really do have to do more research.

Those 200 Canadian heads are probably all that's left. Every junkyard in WA and OR has completely sold out of Turbo heads in the last 2 years. It's not just the heads either, try finding good oil pumps (Melling screwed up their design about 4 years ago so the new ones are junk), good auxiliary shafts (or buy an Essy billet one at $300!), or crack-free exhaust manifolds.

Look, they're good motors. They can make good power, and a select few people have made reliable good power. But they are expensive at anything over 280HP. They are also very, very heavy for their power/displacement. Like I said, a 302 is lighter with a carburetor.

Read GRM when you get a chance, those guys are building 10-second CARS for under $2K. $1500 for a 270HP rebuild is expensive. Like I said, easy 300+ HP N/A 302 for that.

85rx-7gsl-se · 03-11-2008, 05:38 PM

IMO, the best way to source 2.3Ts is from running Merkur as they sell really cheap most of the time...I got mine with 63k miles for $600.

$100T2 · 03-14-2008, 07:16 PM

As far as ideas for other swaps, here's a short list:

1) 20B, turbo or NA
2) 3.8L turbo Buick Grand National engine. Downside: Automatic only.
3) 4.3L Vortech. With a T-56 like I'm going to do, mileage should be awesome. I know guys with LT-1s and T-56s that are getting 30 mpg or more from an FC with it. Most things like rings, pistons, connecting rods, etc are interchangeable with 5.7L motors.
4) Anybody consider one of the big Porsche 4 cyls? Don't they go up to 3.0L?
5) 3.5L Nissan V6, want to say it's coded 35VQ or something like that. You can find that engine in the 350Z as well as a bunch of different mini-vans(!) and the Maxima.
6) The aforementioned 2.3L turbo.
7) I wouldn't mind getting the 4.0L Lexus V8 out of the SC400, or the 4.3L from the SC430.

85rx-7gsl-se · 03-14-2008, 07:30 PM

Yeah, it is a VQ35DE i believe. I actually know a local guys who has one on ebay...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-...spagenameZWDVW

Bone stock, 287hp

85rx-7gsl-se · 03-14-2008, 07:33 PM

And late model 944s and the 968 do have a 3.0l I-4.

$100T2 · 03-14-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85rx-7gsl-se

Yeah, it is a VQ35DE i believe. I actually know a local guys who has one on ebay...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-...spagenameZWDVW

Bone stock, 287hp

That would be an awesome swap.

A Vortech swap is also a great idea because with headers and cam, you can get 275 hp, 300 ft-lbs. Imagine what it would do with a turbo or two...

03-11-2008, 03:58 PM	#20
P71 RCC Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: WA State iTrader: (1) Posts: 651 Rep Power: 17	Yes, turbo heads with hardened seats, larger ports, and Inconel exhaust valves ARE dried up. Of course you can still find wimpy N/A heads all day long. Takes over $500 just to get them to stock turbo head levels. Esslinger's heads are aluminum, and start at $1500. Not exactly "budget friendly" considering that's what a PAIR of 302 AFR's go for. Have you ever weighed a 2.3T? It's almost exactly an EFI 302. A carb'd 302 is even lighter. The Volvo swap is cool, but it takes a LOT more work then you realize. It's also heavy. Bottom line is, it's a 1960's designed engine, that weighs too much, and has barely any aftermarket support for the turbo versions. It's just all wrong for swapping into RX-7's, and frankly, too expensive to modify period. For the money you have in what is going to be a 250HP engine you could have a 300+HP 302 and still weigh less. __________________ Michael Pinto 2008 PDXCGP Drag Racing Season Champion 83 RX-7 GSL; 12A/5-Speed, Red/Red; 100% Stock - 16.072@83.39 01 CV Police Interceptor; 4.6 SOHC V8/4R70W, Dk Blue/Grey; K&N FIPK/RP Oil/Optima/Superchips/Flowmaster 40's/2.5" cat-back - 14.854@92.37 Read my Rx-7 Build Thread! http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ed=1#post70955 Get on the new RCC 1/4 Mile ET List! http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...read.php?t=368 Vote for the ROTM! http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...play.php?f=125

03-11-2008, 04:50 PM	#22
P71 RCC Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: WA State iTrader: (1) Posts: 651 Rep Power: 17	Hehehe.. I've been into the 2.3T's for about 8 years. I built a 14-second full-weight (3800#) Turbo Coupe among others. I have a 2.3T that I'm putting together for a guy in Indiana. He has the 1987 Watkins Glen Pace Car, it's an 87 Turbo Coupe. It's getting a bigger cam, bigger turbo, porting, etc, etc, but it's all going to look factory restoration concourse stock. Basically it will put out about 280-300HP and look completely original from the engine bay (you'll be able to see the larger turbo and exhaust from underneath). It's my last hurrah at 2.3's. It took FIVE "good" turbo heads to get this one together. __________________ Michael Pinto 2008 PDXCGP Drag Racing Season Champion 83 RX-7 GSL; 12A/5-Speed, Red/Red; 100% Stock - 16.072@83.39 01 CV Police Interceptor; 4.6 SOHC V8/4R70W, Dk Blue/Grey; K&N FIPK/RP Oil/Optima/Superchips/Flowmaster 40's/2.5" cat-back - 14.854@92.37 Read my Rx-7 Build Thread! http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ed=1#post70955 Get on the new RCC 1/4 Mile ET List! http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...read.php?t=368 Vote for the ROTM! http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...play.php?f=125

03-11-2008, 05:35 PM	#25
P71 RCC Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: WA State iTrader: (1) Posts: 651 Rep Power: 17	Not flaming you man, and I can appreciate the "excitement" of learning a new engine, but you really do have to do more research. Those 200 Canadian heads are probably all that's left. Every junkyard in WA and OR has completely sold out of Turbo heads in the last 2 years. It's not just the heads either, try finding good oil pumps (Melling screwed up their design about 4 years ago so the new ones are junk), good auxiliary shafts (or buy an Essy billet one at $300!), or crack-free exhaust manifolds. Look, they're good motors. They can make good power, and a select few people have made reliable good power. But they are expensive at anything over 280HP. They are also very, very heavy for their power/displacement. Like I said, a 302 is lighter with a carburetor. Read GRM when you get a chance, those guys are building 10-second CARS for under $2K. $1500 for a 270HP rebuild is expensive. Like I said, easy 300+ HP N/A 302 for that. __________________ Michael Pinto 2008 PDXCGP Drag Racing Season Champion 83 RX-7 GSL; 12A/5-Speed, Red/Red; 100% Stock - 16.072@83.39 01 CV Police Interceptor; 4.6 SOHC V8/4R70W, Dk Blue/Grey; K&N FIPK/RP Oil/Optima/Superchips/Flowmaster 40's/2.5" cat-back - 14.854@92.37 Read my Rx-7 Build Thread! http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ed=1#post70955 Get on the new RCC 1/4 Mile ET List! http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...read.php?t=368 Vote for the ROTM! http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...play.php?f=125

03-14-2008, 07:16 PM	#27
$100T2 Big Daddy Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rhode Island iTrader: (2) Posts: 419 Rep Power: 17	As far as ideas for other swaps, here's a short list: 1) 20B, turbo or NA 2) 3.8L turbo Buick Grand National engine. Downside: Automatic only. 3) 4.3L Vortech. With a T-56 like I'm going to do, mileage should be awesome. I know guys with LT-1s and T-56s that are getting 30 mpg or more from an FC with it. Most things like rings, pistons, connecting rods, etc are interchangeable with 5.7L motors. 4) Anybody consider one of the big Porsche 4 cyls? Don't they go up to 3.0L? 5) 3.5L Nissan V6, want to say it's coded 35VQ or something like that. You can find that engine in the 350Z as well as a bunch of different mini-vans(!) and the Maxima. 6) The aforementioned 2.3L turbo. 7) I wouldn't mind getting the 4.0L Lexus V8 out of the SC400, or the 4.3L from the SC430. __________________ Hell hath no fury like a rotor blown.

03-11-2008, 12:57 PM	#18
oorx7 Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 57 Rep Power: 17	We built this 3sgte, http://www.cj-motorsports.com/galmr2.htm , This was a cool build. Funny thing is, before this motor was purchased by the MR2 owner, it was offered to me. My FD had a blown motor at the time .

03-11-2008, 03:50 PM	#19
warwickben sa rat rod Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tewksbury ma iTrader: (4) Posts: 408 Rep Power: 17	85rx-7gsl-se its cool you know about the 2.3l turbo motor. P71 the heads are not that hard to find.me and my buddy are rebuilding a 1984 rs turbo capri. paid 220 tho my dads work, loaded head cam's ect. finding the old after market ford big bore head is hard.the new ford racing heads are really made by esslinger. theres http://www.esslingeracing.com they make all most every thing for the motor and will mod there head to work for what you want. we have 3 motors for the car right now. the stock 2.3 that came in the car. the 302 with a 4 speed(giving away for free) that the guy we got the car from was swapping in and gave up. also we got another 2.3 from a b2300 ill talk about this in a bit. alot of people say a full 2.3 weighs the same as a 302. stock for stock i dont believe this is true. me and my friend where able to pic the motor and trans up, we couldnt do the same for the 302. the stock motor we fully built up custom piston's , t3/t4 turbo fmic, gutted and knifed edge in take ect ect. full cost of fixing the blown motor machine work and head was around 1.5k$ thats include clutch setup. the second 2.3 that we got out of a b2300 where converting it to dohc. theres a a bunch of mustangs that have done this. you need a volvo 16v head .the hardiest part of this is welding a block of metal on the back side of the head and slotting a few oil holes in the head. then get the head fly cut so it sits flat other then that its basically a bolt on job. o yeah you need to run one external oil line. on a na motor it adds 100 hp. so if you convert a na 2.3 to a dohc its all most making the same power of a stock turbo 2.3. also a na motor with this head swap make more power then the v8 from some years . am not making this up and will post links if you want to see how its done, i did leave out little minor things but its not that hard.

03-11-2008, 04:53 PM	#23
warwickben sa rat rod Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tewksbury ma iTrader: (4) Posts: 408 Rep Power: 17	first , iam not picking a fight and i dont have a problem with you.iam just posting the info that i have gotten from restoring the rs turbo capri from the ground up. Esslinger's heads i agree with you not worth the money.yeah they flow more then a stock turbo head but if you have a good core you can spend less money on a port job to do the same.(depending on the person porting) the reason i say that is because two people in my capri club tested it out. one had a esslinger head and one had a stock turbo head . they both sent them to a head porter and he was able to get the stock head to flow the same amount. the pre d port heads are extremely hard to find but the d ports are better any ways.my step dad works for jack young auto, they mainly sell to fleet's. like ups, fed ex, the police , cab drivers ect and garages. if you bring your car to a shop and they replace some thing there's a good chance they get the parts from him. when i worked there we sent stuff to cali Seattle ect ect. we had the stock head magna flux(is that spelt right) and it was cracked. he got the head at his cost for 220$ with cam's and valves 2 days after i asked him to get it.before you ask yes its a real turbo head, not a na. the place they got it from said they had close to 200 ready to be shipped out and more that are waiting rebuild they said they havnt gotten a call in some time asking for one. so there not that hard to find just need some one who can buy them from a ford re builder. most are in Canada believe it or not. pulse ford racing still sells heads to. like i said i didnt list all the info on the volvo head swap ive been researching it for some time. its not that hard to do but it can become over whelming fast at times.need to take baby steps. all so i didn't have a scale but from me lifting the Volvo head which is aluminum and the 2.3 turbo head which is iron. to me the Volvo was lighter. maybe it was my mind tricking me in to thinking it. the stock 2.3 turbo motor made close to 220 hp at 8psi depending on what car it was in.the v8 made a little less the same years the turbo 2.3 was offered. i didn't list all of the stuff we did to the motor. the motor was blown need to have the deck fly cut and bored out. so i think going from a blown motor to a fully built motor for 1500$ is cheap. there are a few guys that did every thing we did to our motor and are running the motor at over 30 psi safely. one person had his car shown in modified mustangs and that where me and my buddy got the idea to buy the capri off the guy i work with and fully restore it. had no floor's ect ect if it was not a 1984 rs turbo capri we would of just got the motor and got a mustang shell. where not going to run it at that high of a level of boost because we want it street able but well be around 20 psi+ other people in our club are running around 20 pounds of boost and didn't do half of the stuff we did,and there motors are safe. most are making 350 pulse. the only person in our club that has the same setup but in a mustang is making well over 400 hp rwhp. he took a black marker to his dyno slip to hide what hes really making and wont tell how much boost. too expensive to modify(i don't believe so). there is after market support. yeah some things youll have to make your self but if you know where to look you can get it. ecu= mega squirter, sds ect ect. intake manifold= 40bob.com or you port and rotate it your self, like i did. turbo manifold= 40bob.com or make you own. theres a few others making them tho. custom piston's = diamond. stroker crank = esslinger, connecting rods for stroker with there crank any 350 sbc which there is ton's of. i dont have a feeling about putting one in a rx7. i wouldn't put one in my rx7. i just posted here because the ford turbo 2.3 was talked about.and its not every day you meet some one with a rx and knows about the 2.3 well at least in my age group 22. again i am not fighting you , i dont think bad of you in any way. i do not want to start a fight. i do not want to be flamed. iam just posting all the info i have learned from restoring the capri.

03-11-2008, 04:57 PM	#24
warwickben sa rat rod Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tewksbury ma iTrader: (4) Posts: 408 Rep Power: 17	i started to wright that befor you posted you last post p71. again i was not trying to start a fight just posting what i have learned about this motor in the last year and half. i belive you about the weight of the motor. i forgot we didnt have every thing on 2.3 when we lifted it up. sorry and i dont want to get on your bad side.