800+rwhp 13B PP

[forcefed7]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Race Logic Drift Box or Performance Box are very cheap entry point to do some real world testing, you should buy one and test that car for us

Cheap is relative, but that's besides the point. I have a chassis dyno that offers me the ability to have a controlled, repeatable, safe environment to perform testing. Constant, repeatable data, that almost takes the operator completely out of the equation. Having this type of testing equipment is a bit more practical for me.

I am a fan of Race Logic products, I've just never had a need that I could justify the cost.

[RICE RACING]

150mph in 1/4 mile????

For less than 1k you can by a Drift box or even less for a Performance box, with nearly 900bhp 13B on tap you would be mad to not invest in one of these and show everyone just how fast that bad boy is out in the real world.

So you should list up some detailed specs on it for everyone to drool over

[RICE RACING]

So how long does this motor last using 10,000+rpm? what does the old man use it for? (dyno competitions only?)

I probably would not recommend trying to accelerate in 2nd or 3rd gear unless you want to warranty his gearbox hahaha

I'm sure we could muster up enough donations off this forums membership to buy PFS a basic cheap VBOX so you could post up some acceleration figures from this bad boy

[RETed]

Originally Posted by forcefed7

The torque curve looks strange because of two things.

-Tire/clutch slippage when the vehicle comes into boost

-Boost dropping off at higher rpms.

Hey, appreciate offering more information on this set-up!

The assumption was that nothing was slipping and that 100% (or close to it) of the power was getting to the dyno...
I give you credit that the graph is really smooth for stuff slipping during the run!
The smooth graph was the reason why I assumed there were no problem...
Hell, even watching the vid, I didn't see no obvious signs of slipage...

Yeah, the power drop had me scratching my head...
I thought for a split second that maybe the turbo (turbine) was too small but dismissed it cause of the total power output.
Hadn't thought that of the wastegate not being able to hold the pressure all the way through - 66mm (Tial?) yikes!

My problem was that I did not have sound when I viewed the video...DOH.
When I tried to punch in the gear ratios for a 4th gear 1:1, it was way over stock redline...another DOH.
With the graph shifted over like that, now the graph makes more sense.

I've got one question, if you don't mind...
How is your intake system designed?
Stock TB with modified stock intake manifold?
Single aftermarket TB with custom runners with everything running through it?
Semi-PP's running through it's own dedicated TB system?


-Ted

[forcefed7]

Originally Posted by RETed

Hey, appreciate offering more information on this set-up!

The assumption was that nothing was slipping and that 100% (or close to it) of the power was getting to the dyno...
I give you credit that the graph is really smooth for stuff slipping during the run!
The smooth graph was the reason why I assumed there were no problem...
Hell, even watching the vid, I didn't see no obvious signs of slipage...

Yeah, the power drop had me scratching my head...
I thought for a split second that maybe the turbo (turbine) was too small but dismissed it cause of the total power output.
Hadn't thought that of the wastegate not being able to hold the pressure all the way through - 66mm (Tial?) yikes!

My problem was that I did not have sound when I viewed the video...DOH.
When I tried to punch in the gear ratios for a 4th gear 1:1, it was way over stock redline...another DOH.
With the graph shifted over like that, now the graph makes more sense.

I've got one question, if you don't mind...
How is your intake system designed?
Stock TB with modified stock intake manifold?
Single aftermarket TB with custom runners with everything running through it?
Semi-PP's running through it's own dedicated TB system?


-Ted

Hi Ted,
The wastegate is a Precision 66mm. When I first started the tuning I had softer springs in it, and it was capable keeping the boost as low as 8psi.

The intake manifold and throttle body is from Xtreme Rotary. The throttle body has four throttle plates, with the primary plates work off of a progressive linkage design. Drivablity is excellent. I did have to make some changes to it, but overall great product.

[forcefed7]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

150mph in 1/4 mile????

For less than 1k you can by a Drift box or even less for a Performance box, with nearly 900bhp 13B on tap you would be mad to not invest in one of these and show everyone just how fast that bad boy is out in the real world.

So you should list up some detailed specs on it for everyone to drool over

Call me mad, but I'd rather have the 1k in my pocket instead sitting on the shelf with everybody and their brother wanting to "borrow" it.

Detail specs? What do you want to know?

It's doubtful I'll be able to provide you with anything insightful or to your satisfaction, but I can try.

[forcefed7]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

So how long does this motor last using 10,000+rpm? what does the old man use it for? (dyno competitions only?)

I probably would not recommend trying to accelerate in 2nd or 3rd gear unless you want to warranty his gearbox hahaha

I'm sure we could muster up enough donations off this forums membership to buy PFS a basic cheap VBOX so you could post up some acceleration figures from this bad boy

I can tell you I had over a hundred dyno pulls on the engine before I disassembled it. Early on I was struggling with a few things on this build, one being steel apex seals and being paranoid of warping them. When I disassembled the engine everything looked just like it should. I took my measurements, made my changes, and reassembled it.

If you keep the mechanical, and thermal limits in check what makes you think it wouldn't sustain long term use?

If you provide the VBOX and I will supply the data, but we both know it's a waste of time for a few reasons.

1) 7/8 of the people on here will not be able to effectively interpret the data, and will likely just go along with whatever you say as being definitively correct. This in itself could be because you are very technical, or they fear the possible public confrontation on the forum if they challenge your opinion.

2) Dynojet are unbias, the operator can't create it's own correction factors and or start the loading process before starting the dyno run, there are no sweep speeds etc.. Sure, you and I know that there are more effective tuning tools/dynos then a dynojet. But once the tuning is done and a vehicle is measure on a dynojet those numbers will match when the vehicle is taken to another dynojet dyno. That's not going to be the case most of the time with the other dyno because the operator of the dyno can influence the results.

3) With your capabilities you can easily take the data I already provided and calculate acceleration rates and averages. Whether you want to admit it or not we both know that the power level is exceptional and broad.
and all the Vbox is going to prove is just that, the power is exceptional and broad.

BTW, I'm not sure what the guys age has to do with anything, but don't kid yourself. Old age comes for all of us that are fortunate enough to endure it.

[RICE RACING]

I am not doubting anything you say PFS man, just I want to see more fast FD's out on the road where they belong

Let me know when you have some acceleration data from this car

E-Mail me and I'll see what I can do to procure you some test gear to facilitate a test. Also how heavy is the car?

[RICE RACING]

For the motor:

It's bridge and peripheral ported
Ceramic apex seals
What exact turbo specification?
fuel system detail?
race clearanced rotors? what compression ratio? what crank shaft if not standard?
How big is the exhaust system post turbo? is the waste gate plumbed back?
Pro EFI (how good is it) on staging it has a mis in the video? *see note on fuel system specs*
what exact fuel do you run in it? what AFR
What ignition system? how much timing on 350kpa ABS?

Congrats on the power and the nature of it, it is exceptional

If you e-mail me I'm sure I will get you a tester shipped from one of my friends there asap

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by forcefed7

Hi Ted,
The wastegate is a Precision 66mm. When I first started the tuning I had softer springs in it, and it was capable keeping the boost as low as 8psi.

The intake manifold and throttle body is from Xtreme Rotary. The throttle body has four throttle plates, with the primary plates work off of a progressive linkage design. Drivablity is excellent. I did have to make some changes to it, but overall great product.

On these similar 1000bhp 13B set up's I run twin 44mm waste gates to get over the problem you are facing now. Minimum spring pressure you can get away with on 350kpa abs and above is 1.4bar.

Single large WG will never work correctly with a "lower" base spring as you are finding out.

[RICE RACING]

All pics are here for those interested > http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i2...k/Dads%20FD3S/

[forcefed7]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

For the motor:

It's bridge and peripheral ported

-Semi PP with street port.

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Ceramic apex seals

-no, 2mm steel

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

What exact turbo specification?

-GT4202R

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

fuel system detail?

-6 x 160lbs injectors

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

race clearanced rotors?

-yes

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

what compression ratio?

-slightly less then 9:1

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

what crank shaft if not standard?

-reworked stock mazda shaft

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

How big is the exhaust system post turbo?

-4" with two muffler

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

is the waste gate plumbed back?

-no

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Pro EFI (how good is it) on staging it has a mis in the video? *see note on fuel system specs*

-Very good, still needed accel table adjustments

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

what exact fuel do you run in it?

-93 octane, VPC16, or Q16

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

what AFR

-whatever the engine needs depending on load.

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

What ignition system?

-inductive ignition system.

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

how much timing on 350kpa ABS?

-whatever the engine needs depending on load and charge density.

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Congrats on the power and the nature of it, it is exceptional

If you e-mail me I'm sure I will get you a tester shipped from one of my friends there asap

[RICE RACING]

What AFR can your induction ignition system handle on 350kpa boost, I assume you are limited to what you can run with it? Same for advance? what is the maximum power you ran on 93 octane alone?

[forcefed7]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Single large WG will never work correctly with a "lower" base spring as you are finding out.

CO2 could address this If the goal was to make more power we would've just swapped to a stiffer wastegate spring.

[RICE RACING]

I'm not so sure why the shyness on sharing with people here what AFR and timing you use????

Specifically 8k to 10krpm @ 350kpa abs (or slightly below as your boost does not hold).

We both know the values, hell I even provided the knowledge for a 800+rwhp 12A! running a GT45R turbo using 36psi gauge boost, using C16 fuel only (and that is on our dyno's that read lower than yours) car trapped 167mph in a RX3 with a 28x9 tire. Only used 9000rpm though, bridge ported with 13B-RE inlet manifold and adapter plate.

I have a couple of customers who run C16 at similar mph and similar rwhp figures on just C16 but with 13B's and all are water injected to make the steel apex seals reliable long term.

AFR's in the 10's Timing in the single digits.