Zero Clearance Side Seals

a7xh7 · 04-04-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afgmoto1978

you would see unwanted binding at the side seal from the apex seal rotating at the point of peak combustion pressure.

i was thinking the same. cant really avoid it(by cutting out more space to move) and keep the seal tight, so if theres any rotation of the corner seal it may cause binding and eventually wear the broad surface of the side seals.

Barry Bordes · 04-07-2008, 07:03 AM

I cut each side seal to the specific rotor location. Unfortunately each rotor corner is slightly different. I then rock the apex seal to check for binding of the side seal. If any is found I increase the cut on that side.

One advantage I noticed was that on final assembly the apex seal always slides in fully. It is perfectly aligned. No fishing with a pick to straighten the lower corner seal position!

Barry

zonblitz · 04-07-2008, 11:04 AM

I was at Barry's last week, he is the wizard!

I am seriously hoping he is ready, if not I think he should ride with Jack!

/hijack..... Hey Barry I fixed that a/c!

Phoenix7 · 05-02-2008, 03:05 AM

I'm not too familiar with engine work but what's the benefit of this?

Barry Bordes · 05-02-2008, 06:40 PM

More compression.

Here is a poor picture of leak from my last .003” clearanced side seals (cleaned by 50/50 water/meth).

Notice the clean trailing side vs. the leaking leading end.

Barry

Phoenix7 · 05-02-2008, 06:58 PM

I see the difference between the trailing (right side) and the leading (opposite) sides of the rotor and that was due to the large clearance you had before between the side seal and the corner seal.

So, the larger corner seal (with the groove in it for the longer side seal) lowers compression by....?

I'm looking at this pic (no access to the FSM for specs right now) and I can see how your corner seal(s) are different but since I'm not familiar with internals I don't fully grasp how the compression is lowered by reducing/eliminating the clearance.

http://www.turborx7.com/images/rebuild/Specs11b.jpg

I'd love to hear more about his when you have time.

Barry Bordes · 05-03-2008, 06:49 AM

The gapless corner seal doesn't leak any compression!

The leaking seal was set-up with a tight clearance of .003", the Factory minimum.

Barry

AHarada · 05-04-2008, 06:57 PM

This is an awesome intriguing idea. I saw on your same thread on the other place that you're not running this. How is it doing? What side seals are you using?

Barry Bordes · 05-05-2008, 06:46 AM

The trimmed version of the Mazda side seal is part number is N3Y1-11-C11. There is a longer untrimmed version, but Ray Crowe could not find it. He ordered an older number but it turned out to be thicker (.8mm instead of .7mm).

Does anyone know this untrimmed part number?
Barry

My5ABaby · 05-05-2008, 07:01 AM

Wouldn't that raise compression due to no escaping (or what not) air?

Barry Bordes · 05-05-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My5ABaby

Wouldn't that raise compression due to no escaping (or what not) air?

Yes, it gives higher cranking pressure and running pressures!
Barry

My5ABaby · 05-05-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Bordes

Yes, it gives higher cranking pressure and running pressures!
Barry

Oh, earlier you said less compression. I got confused.

Phoenix7 · 05-05-2008, 01:49 PM

That's what has me

. My brain says compression is maintained constant if there is no clearance for the seals to flex so I don't see how compression is lowered.

I'm also waiting on an email to see if I can get a hold of that SAE article.

My5ABaby · 05-05-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenix7

That's what has me

. My brain says compression is maintained constant if there is no clearance for the seals to flex so I don't see how compression is lowered.

I'm also waiting on an email to see if I can get a hold of that SAE article.

He misspoke earlier, it appears. It does raise compression.

My5ABaby · 05-05-2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenix7

That's what has me

. My brain says compression is maintained constant if there is no clearance for the seals to flex so I don't see how compression is lowered.

I'm also waiting on an email to see if I can get a hold of that SAE article.

I have access to all the SAE documents here............. they're just on Microfiche.....

05-02-2008, 06:40 PM	#20
Barry Bordes Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Slidell, LA iTrader: (0) Posts: 191 Rep Power: 17	More compression. Here is a poor picture of leak from my last .003” clearanced side seals (cleaned by 50/50 water/meth). Notice the clean trailing side vs. the leaking leading end. Barry __________________ GOD the Incomprehensible Obvious (www.frksj.org) Last edited by Barry Bordes; 05-08-2008 at 06:26 AM..

05-03-2008, 06:49 AM	#22
Barry Bordes Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Slidell, LA iTrader: (0) Posts: 191 Rep Power: 17	The gapless corner seal doesn't leak any compression! The leaking seal was set-up with a tight clearance of .003", the Factory minimum. Barry __________________ GOD the Incomprehensible Obvious (www.frksj.org)

05-05-2008, 06:46 AM	#24
Barry Bordes Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Slidell, LA iTrader: (0) Posts: 191 Rep Power: 17	The trimmed version of the Mazda side seal is part number is N3Y1-11-C11. There is a longer untrimmed version, but Ray Crowe could not find it. He ordered an older number but it turned out to be thicker (.8mm instead of .7mm). Does anyone know this untrimmed part number? Barry __________________ GOD the Incomprehensible Obvious (www.frksj.org)

05-05-2008, 07:01 AM	#25
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	Wouldn't that raise compression due to no escaping (or what not) air? __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

04-07-2008, 07:03 AM	#17
Barry Bordes Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Slidell, LA iTrader: (0) Posts: 191 Rep Power: 17	I cut each side seal to the specific rotor location. Unfortunately each rotor corner is slightly different. I then rock the apex seal to check for binding of the side seal. If any is found I increase the cut on that side. One advantage I noticed was that on final assembly the apex seal always slides in fully. It is perfectly aligned. No fishing with a pick to straighten the lower corner seal position! Barry

04-07-2008, 11:04 AM	#18
zonblitz Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Pearl River, LA iTrader: (0) Posts: 166 Rep Power: 17	I was at Barry's last week, he is the wizard! I am seriously hoping he is ready, if not I think he should ride with Jack! /hijack..... Hey Barry I fixed that a/c!

05-04-2008, 06:57 PM	#23
AHarada Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (1) Posts: 162 Rep Power: 17	This is an awesome intriguing idea. I saw on your same thread on the other place that you're not running this. How is it doing? What side seals are you using?