Oct, 2010 B3R RCC Car of the Month

[hIGGI]

Yes, car has some interesting history, but i would be hesitant to call it pre-production.

Fact that it was not sold by dealership and that it was not titled does not change anything about actual making (assembly) of it.

VIN number is legit EU production number (6th car in the line), just as mine is JMZFC132200103981

Anyways, i did not wrote what i wrote to discuss whenever it is or not production car, but to let other members of this forum know that all these pointed out differences between regular US cars and this one are not anything else, than just regular equipment and specs of FC's sold in EU.

And no, EU cars sold like NA did not came with TII drivetrain, but we all know thats nothing unusuall to see, first TII i bought back in 2001 had NA engine on TII drivetrain as well

[RETed]

I can understand the resistance to hIGGI, as this particular vehicle has some documented history with some very well-known names in rotary circles.

I would never agree to call it a "pre-production", personally.
It's a straight-up Euro-spec, early (1986) model strictly according to the VIN, period.
I've seen them and touched them with my own hands when I visited hIGGI a few years ago in CZ.

If the vehicle was destined for N.A. (North America) market, the VIN should've followed standard N.A. VIN rules - which it does not.
If you want to argue Mazda had no plans for the N.A. market, then wouldn't it use a Japan VIN standard?
Japan VIN's all start with "FC3S-".
Why stamp the chassis at all with any type of VIN if this is supposedly some prototype?
Or is "prototype" too strong of a word, and this the term "pre-production" is used here?

Why the use of the Euro-spec VIN?
I think Mazda grabbed a Euro-spec model fresh off the factory floor, and some exec thought it would be a good idea to ship it off to the USA.

Now, keep in mind that *ALL* FC's (well, all RX-7's) were built in Hiroshima, Japan.
They ll originated from Japan.
They were not partially built or assembled in their final country's destination.
Just because we call it a "Euro-spec" model, doesn't mean it was built or assembled in Europe.
All of the FC's came from one factory in Japan, period.
It doesn't take much to grab a Euro-spec model and ship it to the USA.

Remember, the first RX-7 was a 1978 model in Japan.
USA never got a 1978 model - it was only released as a 1979 model.
So, you ship a 1978 model from Japan into the USA and call it a "pre-production model"???
I put money the folks in Japan would laugh at you...

It's undeniable that the VIN is straight-up Euro-spec.
The guts are all Euro-spec - was the ECU ever confirmed it was an N32x model?
(I'd question the Turbo II transmission - can anyone take pics of the trans, driveshaft ends, and rear diff front?)
Paint, trim, stickers, plastic pieces can be easily changed or modified after leaving the factory floor.
Was there any black and white documentation of this claim that this FC was a pre-production model?
I don't think I read anything about that.
There's too much hearsay about people's claims.


-Ted

[FC Zach]

I've seen the diff and it's a limited slip diff. Regardless of the debate on the rarity/history of the car, it's nice and very unique. I notice something different about the car as compared to other FC's of the generation everytime I see it. It's an amazing car no matter what country you're from, period. Congrats Kristy!

[t_g_farrell]

So if you all are all hung up on the phrase pre-production lets call it
what it was - pre-homologation then.

It was one of the first FCs to come into the US but it was not built to
US specs or regulations. It is a special status and it is a unique vehicle
when compared to all the FCs here in the US.

Of any FCs in the US, this is one that could appreciate in value in the
future due to its special pedigree. Much like a 78 build date on an SA.

I think if Kristy can hunt down and document all the details of this car
and its coming into the US, she would have a very valuable car. I would
bet Mazda may have records locked away somewhere to help this along.

[Acesanugal]

The texture of the A-pillar plastics are different from any production FC, as are the color of the writing on the window switches, etc.

It has already been discussed, and beaten to death, that the car is essentially euro-spec. There is, however, no chance that the car rolled off the production line with the intent of being sold in the way that it is equipped... There just isn't. There is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that the transmission, driveshaft, or differential have been swapped in that car from N/A to TII units. It also is equipped with A.A.S., and has no rear wiper. The 'roof band' is not even properly complete, and the car has never had the Finishline spoiler to go along with it's Finishline body kit. It has no cruise control, no C.S.A., and does not even have standard exhaust installed.. The door-set courtesy lights are all red.. do I really need to go on?

If you want my opinion, it is in fact a pre-production car. And by pre-production, I mean they were still fucking with it before the car actually went on sale... Final touches...Press mule.. Because the car is too similar to a production car for it to be a 'prototype'.
How must you think Top Gear is able to occasionally destroy a brand new vehicle? Pre-production cars are usually never titled... but that does not mean that they do not have VIN numbers. The cars are given VIN numbers simply for what the VIN does... Identify. It is a record of a unit being built. And most pre-production vehicles must be destroyed. Crushed, or, in the case of this car, to be turned into a proper race car. In this way, none of the bits that weren't supposed to make it to the production cars affect it. It's essentially just a shell for modifying.

I do rather enjoy a good debate every now and then, but the truth of the matter is, that none of you that are arguing nay-say have personally seen the car, pulled it apart, or been underneath it in any way, shape, or form. I think it would have been more appropriate, and more respectful, to have simply asked if Kristy could possibly unearth further history on the car, rather than jumping right on in to try and discredit it.

That is all.. and if you ask me, quite enough.

[RotorDad]

Too much debate over something so simple. Congrats on owning a car with some history behind it. Needless to say word choice here seems to be the issue, but that doesn't change the fact that the car has history. Like said above there is some pretty reputable names attached to this car, so it shouldn't be hard to verify how this car came to be here in the US.

[ROTORX7Holly]

Originally Posted by t_g_farrell

So if you all are all hung up on the phrase pre-production lets call it
what it was - pre-homologation then.

Wait, this means her tag would then read "PREHOMO", instead of PREPROD.

[FC Zach]

ha ha ha, , LOL

[RETed]

Originally Posted by Acesanugal

The texture of the A-pillar plastics are different from any production FC, as are the color of the writing on the window switches, etc.

It has already been discussed, and beaten to death, that the car is essentially euro-spec. There is, however, no chance that the car rolled off the production line with the intent of being sold in the way that it is equipped... There just isn't. There is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that the transmission, driveshaft, or differential have been swapped in that car from N/A to TII units. It also is equipped with A.A.S., and has no rear wiper. The 'roof band' is not even properly complete, and the car has never had the Finishline spoiler to go along with it's Finishline body kit. It has no cruise control, no C.S.A., and does not even have standard exhaust installed.. The door-set courtesy lights are all red.. do I really need to go on?

We're arguing on the finished product versus arguing it's "process".
To me, just by looking at the pics, it's just some Finishline parts slapped on the vehicle.
You do realize that the Finishline items are installed by the dealer right?
The Finishline items are not slapped on at the factory in Hiroshima, Japan.

You're arguing about (drivetrain) parts that are clearly NOT pictured.

If you want my opinion, it is in fact a pre-production car. And by pre-production, I mean they were still fucking with it before the car actually went on sale... Final touches...Press mule.. Because the car is too similar to a production car for it to be a 'prototype'.

That's right, it's your opinion.

How must you think Top Gear is able to occasionally destroy a brand new vehicle? Pre-production cars are usually never titled... but that does not mean that they do not have VIN numbers. The cars are given VIN numbers simply for what the VIN does... Identify. It is a record of a unit being built. And most pre-production vehicles must be destroyed. Crushed, or, in the case of this car, to be turned into a proper race car. In this way, none of the bits that weren't supposed to make it to the production cars affect it. It's essentially just a shell for modifying.

I can't believe you're arguing this.
The VIN is straight-up European.
Thus, I think it's pretty safe to say (unless there is documentation to prove otherwise) that the car was originally a Euro-spec vehicle.

I do rather enjoy a good debate every now and then, but the truth of the matter is, that none of you that are arguing nay-say have personally seen the car, pulled it apart, or been underneath it in any way, shape, or form. I think it would have been more appropriate, and more respectful, to have simply asked if Kristy could possibly unearth further history on the car, rather than jumping right on in to try and discredit it.

That is all.. and if you ask me, quite enough.

I've asked for pics.
I am not going to fly there from Honolulu, Hawaii USA unless someone else is going to pay for my flight and accomodations.

Right now, the VIN is our strongest argument that it's originally a Euro-spec vehicle that was yanked to the USA.
hIGGI asked for confirmation of the ECU model # - NO PICS OR INFORMATION YET.
I'll put money it's an N32x.

This whole mess would be easily put to rest if there was DOCUMENTATION to prove it's claims.
PERIOD.
Sorry, but I don't take someone's word on this.
I need to see proof for myself.

This ends my involvement in this thread unless documentation can be provided.
Email me when this happens.


-Ted

[notnauto]

Originally Posted by RETed

We're arguing on the finished product versus arguing it's "process".
To me, just by looking at the pics, it's just some Finishline parts slapped on the vehicle.
You do realize that the Finishline items are installed by the dealer right?
The Finishline items are not slapped on at the factory in Hiroshima, Japan.

You're arguing about (drivetrain) parts that are clearly NOT pictured.



That's right, it's your opinion.



I can't believe you're arguing this.
The VIN is straight-up European.
Thus, I think it's pretty safe to say (unless there is documentation to prove otherwise) that the car was originally a Euro-spec vehicle.




I've asked for pics.
I am not going to fly there from Honolulu, Hawaii USA unless someone else is going to pay for my flight and accomodations.

Right now, the VIN is our strongest argument that it's originally a Euro-spec vehicle that was yanked to the USA.
hIGGI asked for confirmation of the ECU model # - NO PICS OR INFORMATION YET.
I'll put money it's an N32x.

This whole mess would be easily put to rest if there was DOCUMENTATION to prove it's claims.
PERIOD.
Sorry, but I don't take someone's word on this.
I need to see proof for myself.

This ends my involvement in this thread unless documentation can be provided.
Email me when this happens.


-Ted

You could always call Jim Downing himself and ask him. I believe he is closer to the truth of what I call my car than anybody that is involved in this argument. I know its history. I've heard it directly from the person who I bought the car from. Again, that would be Jim Downing. I trust him on the history of the car and how it made it's way here to the U.S. and why he calls it a Pro-Production car.

All of you really have missed the point on why this is a pre production. It doesn't matter if it is all euro speced out. Mazda Japan made these cars. Sent them here and there and everywhere. Everybody put their $.02 in on what they thought the production cars should end up having and not having. Mine, came to the U.S to get it's $.02 added and then was handed off to become a race car.... That is what Mazda did with pre production cars back in the day. Also any cars that came off the ships and got damaged. Those too were given to the factory race team to become race cars. Now again, How do I know this information? I've talked to and on any given day can talk to Jim Downing.

and finally.... Really?!?!?

[ROTORX7Holly]

Originally Posted by RETed

We're arguing on the finished product versus arguing it's "process".
To me, just by looking at the pics, it's just some Finishline parts slapped on the vehicle.
You do realize that the Finishline items are installed by the dealer right?
The Finishline items are not slapped on at the factory in Hiroshima, Japan.

-Ted

The Finishline body kit was most likely put on for media pictures. I'm sure this car went through different looks while owned by Mazda N.A. That's what it was sent here for.

[t_g_farrell]

Kristy, I think some folks are just jealous of you having such a sweet ride

I for one, celebrate that you made car of the month and that it has been recognized by RCC for what it is, a unique and interesting 7 for the front page.

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by t_g_farrell

Kristy, I think some folks are just jealous of you having such a sweet ride

I for one, celebrate that you made car of the month and that it has been recognized by RCC for what it is, a unique and interesting 7 for the front page.

Well said!

Congratulations Kristy, and enjoy driving that '7

[FDDandata]

NIIIIICE!......... that big soda looks refreshing.
and beautiful car. Having a mom that's into rotarys must be great too

[NoDOHC]

Common Ted, Let up man!

This is a cool car and a classic, even if you haven't convinced Ted of it's authenticity. I have known people to pay many thousands of dollars for a late 60's Camaro or 'Vette with considerably less evidence than this.

Congrats!