Plain Jane OEM nothing to see here rebuild

[incubus]

Any new news with this?

[JustJeff]

I've been away from the car and site for some time. It appears that in the process of working out my efan I overheated the engine. It has all the signs of coolant seal leak. Had to start after it's been warmed up. White and sweet exhaust on start up. Fouled plugs.

It's been so hot out that I haven't felt like working on it. Now that it's cooled off some I'll start addressing some issues.

I did pick some a pair of Crown Vic wheels. The paint on them is gorgeous and near perfect. I'm in the process of stripping the lips so that I can polish them. Though I'm not really in a rush to get it done.

[4port]

nice work

[JustJeff]

The engine is being re-rebuilt to fix the coolant seal leak. The engine has about 2k on the break-in of 4k because I replaced the stat gear bearings. I'll start getting the engine ready to pull very soon.

Here is my shopping list thus far, let me know if I'm missing anything:

O-ring kit, there is a more expensive one but I believe this one has everything I'll need
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/89-92-Turbo-Rx7-O-Ring-Kit-N370-10-S60.html

Front gasket cover, though I may do the RX-8 modded cover. There is always the chance that I botch the modded RX-8 gasket. Trying to decide if I want to add variables where they are not really needed.
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/86-92-...86-10-502.html

Oil pan gasket
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/86-92-...Y0-10-427.html

I'd like opinions on whether to replace my exhaust gaskets, both engine to manifold and manifold to turbo. I put new ones on shortly after my rebuild so they have less than 2k miles on them.

[RETed]

Sorry to hear it didn't end well...

Yeah, just need to replace the soft seals.
The metal (exhaust) gaskets can be reused.
As long as there is no signs of cracking on the inside edges, the metal gaskets are fine to reuse.


-Ted

[JustJeff]

^ Thanks Ted
The problems were my own dumb fault. I didn't setup my efan properly and it cost me. Lesson learned.

I need to test a few things before I pull the engine. The engine started behaving strangely in that it bogs down when boost pressure builds. The more quickly boost is building the worse it bogs down. However this is a sudden change. It was building what boost I'd allow the engine to see just fine. I've got my MBC set to zero so it's purging as much pressure as the wastegate will allow. It never had this problem till just recently and suddenly.


I'm hoping it's fouled plugs. My plugs are fouling so the engine runs great when fresh ones are put in and within a couple weeks you can hear and feel a change in the engine as they foul. Any other thoughts on what it could be? TPS, timing...anything else anyone can think of?

Other little things I've thought of for my shopping list:
Because I'd rather replace the $3 part than pull my oil pan
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/70-95-...10-14-171.html

Because I swapped a known good level sender and did not replace the o-ring...which led to an annoying leak.
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/81-95-...26-10-T11.html

I'm also giving thought to pulling only the engine and leaving the tranny. Reason being, I have Royal Purple fluid in the tranny. I can drain it and save it, but in that process some will be lost and I don't want to buy another bottle simply to top it off. Seems that the engine pull would be much easier, but putting it in will be tougher. Any thoughts from more experienced members?

[RETed]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

I'm hoping it's fouled plugs. My plugs are fouling so the engine runs great when fresh ones are put in and within a couple weeks you can hear and feel a change in the engine as they foul. Any other thoughts on what it could be? TPS, timing...anything else anyone can think of?

Hard to say, but to cause spark plugs to foul that badly and that quickly means something is really out of whack.
The engine will run with quite a bit more fuel that needed and timing off by as much as 10-degrees (or slightly more) without giving a hint of something is wrong.
You're not running really cold plugs - colder than 9's?

I'm also giving thought to pulling only the engine and leaving the tranny. Reason being, I have Royal Purple fluid in the tranny. I can drain it and save it, but in that process some will be lost and I don't want to buy another bottle simply to top it off. Seems that the engine pull would be much easier, but putting it in will be tougher. Any thoughts from more experienced members?

I'm one of those weird ones that prefer to leave the trans in place...
Would love to have the space and equipment to handle both the trans and the engine install at the same time, but in most cases, this is the opposite.
With the aide of an engine tilter (this REALLY helps), installing the engine back into the trans usually takes me about 15 minutes.
The PITA part is alternating the trans bolts between top and bottom - you end up with quite a work-out!


-Ted

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by RETed

Hard to say, but to cause spark plugs to foul that badly and that quickly means something is really out of whack.
The engine will run with quite a bit more fuel that needed and timing off by as much as 10-degrees (or slightly more) without giving a hint of something is wrong.
You're not running really cold plugs - colder than 9's?
-Ted

I've alternated between stock 7 and 9's and using all 9's. IIRC it is stock 7 and 9s in there now. The couple of weeks thing on the plugs fouling may have been an exageration. The car has sat a couple months without driving it so it's my best recall. But over time I can hear the exhaust tone change as they foul. I'm going to replace them just before i pull the engine to see how that effects the boost problem. I'll get some pics of the plugs and post them. In fact, I'll get the plugs today.

[JustJeff]

Plugs had to be ordered and they will be here on Tues.

One thing I forgot to mention. I had always assumed the fouling plugs is due to coolant seal leak. Thoughts on this?

[JL1RX7]

Or it running too rich, too much premix/oil. Those would be the big ones. If I recall correctly their used to be a sticky on the evil forum showing all the different pictures of plugs and what they mean. Always something useful to have to do a quick visual check of what you got.

[RETed]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

One thing I forgot to mention. I had always assumed the fouling plugs is due to coolant seal leak. Thoughts on this?

Yes, coolant on the spark plug tips will kill them in short order.

You can do a quick & dirty test with a DMM...
Measure resistance from the spark plug wire end to the center electrode (in combustion chamber).
Check this same measurement on one of the brand new spark plugs.
The used spark plug should be *less* in resistance due to the center electrode wear down slightly.
If the spark plug is "fouled", the resistance is going to be significantly higher.
I forget what what these NGK BUR/EQ's spec around, but the number 1.1k-ohm sticks in my head?
Don't quote me on that...


-Ted

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by RETed

Yes, coolant on the spark plug tips will kill them in short order.

You can do a quick & dirty test with a DMM...
Measure resistance from the spark plug wire end to the center electrode (in combustion chamber).
Check this same measurement on one of the brand new spark plugs.
The used spark plug should be *less* in resistance due to the center electrode wear down slightly.
If the spark plug is "fouled", the resistance is going to be significantly higher.
I forget what what these NGK BUR/EQ's spec around, but the number 1.1k-ohm sticks in my head?
Don't quote me on that...


-Ted

That's some pretty resourceful thinking. Plugs will be here Tues. and I'll get some measurements and report back.

[JustJeff]

Here's what I've got so far:

Haven't been able to accurately test my old spark plugs. Batteries in the DMM were low. It tested the new plugs just fine. All 4 9's tested at 4.83-4.91. But the old plugs I had all kinds of trouble getting readings. I was pulling old plugs and testing as I went. Wasn't getting good readings. Some of them the DMM was bouncing all over the place. Literally anything from "OL" to 35.00ish. I got frustrated with it, marked all the plugs for their position in the engine and came back to it later. While trying to test them again the DMM batteries died. I've got some batteries charging overnight and I'll test more tonight once I get home.

I moved the car to the location where I'm gonna pull the engine and looked some things over and generally tinkered around. I played around with my MBC settings to find out more about the stuttering when boost pressure builds. It always happens right when the engine goes from vacuum to boost. If I turn MBC all the way down and purging as much as possible stuttering happens less. What I found is that if I get the engine past that transition from vacuum to boost it boosts just fine once it gets beyond that point. If I turn the MBC up and get on the engine some pressure moves past that zero transition point quickly and once it's showing boost it will hold 5 psi nice and even. Going in the opposite direction when boost is dropping and its going back into vacuum the engine will again stutter. Vacuum leak is what I'm thinking?

Here is what I found. The two large vacuum hoses on the Purge Control Valve have turned soft and jelly-like and literally won't stay on the PCV. I have removed as much of the vacuum routing as possible but left the rats nest in place. I don't think I routed anything incorrectly...but user error is always possible. Going on the assumption that everything is routed correctly; my question is why those vacuum lines have turned to jelly? Oil blowing through the hoses?

Possibly related and possibly just normal behavior. When I first turned the rebuilt engine over and letting it idle, warm up, etc. I was checking fluids and listening for bad noises. I noticed my oil filter got amazingly hot. Too hot to touch and I was worried enough that I shut the engine off. I couldn't find anything out of place so I went ahead and proceeded with breaking in the engine and I haven't noticed the oil filter or oil temps being unusually high. I've got an aftermarket oil temp gauge and the numbers stay in the normal range.

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

Here is what I found. The two large vacuum hoses on the Purge Control Valve have turned soft and jelly-like and literally won't stay on the PCV. I have removed as much of the vacuum routing as possible but left the rats nest in place. I don't think I routed anything incorrectly...but user error is always possible. Going on the assumption that everything is routed correctly; my question is why those vacuum lines have turned to jelly? Oil blowing through the hoses?

Possibly related and possibly just normal behavior. When I first turned the rebuilt engine over and letting it idle, warm up, etc. I was checking fluids and listening for bad noises. I noticed my oil filter got amazingly hot. Too hot to touch and I was worried enough that I shut the engine off. I couldn't find anything out of place so I went ahead and proceeded with breaking in the engine and I haven't noticed the oil filter or oil temps being unusually high. I've got an aftermarket oil temp gauge and the numbers stay in the normal range.

WRT the PCV hoses, the two hoses on the bottom of the PCV often turn to goo. That would be the large diameter one that goes to the oil filler nipple on the housing and smaller one routes back to the intake mani via the rats nest IIRC. Both see crankcase/oil vapors, so over time a cheaper grade rubber hose (regular vacuum hose) or a standard unlinered silicone hose will breakdown. Look for hose rated as an "emissions" hose to replace those; it's nitrile rubber IIRC, which is designed to be compatible with oil vapors.

The oil filter being too hot to handle is probably normal - depends on your threshold of pain. I've got an oil temp gauge on my FC, and if I touch the filter while the oil temp gauge is reading a normal 195F, I find the filter too hot to handle.

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by Pete_89T2

WRT the PCV hoses, the two hoses on the bottom of the PCV often turn to goo. That would be the large diameter one that goes to the oil filler nipple on the housing and smaller one routes back to the intake mani via the rats nest IIRC. Both see crankcase/oil vapors, so over time a cheaper grade rubber hose (regular vacuum hose) or a standard unlinered silicone hose will breakdown. Look for hose rated as an "emissions" hose to replace those; it's nitrile rubber IIRC, which is designed to be compatible with oil vapors.

The oil filter being too hot to handle is probably normal - depends on your threshold of pain. I've got an oil temp gauge on my FC, and if I touch the filter while the oil temp gauge is reading a normal 195F, I find the filter too hot to handle.

Excellent point on the hose issue...I never even considered that.

About the filter, I didn't have my oil temp gauge wired up at the time I first started the engine up. My concern was how much hotter and how quickly it got hot compared to the rest of the engine and coolant. What I guess was going on was that there was probably air being pushed through with the oil on initial start up.