Plain Jane OEM nothing to see here rebuild

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

Sounds like I might have assumed too much. I assumed difference between 2 wire and 3 wire Taurus fans was that 2 wire was 1 speed and 3 wire was 2 speed. I also assumed that for my 3 wire fan that I had one common ground and 2 different +. + for low and + for high. I assumed that the diagram was for either high or low, but not for both. I physically swap wires to go from high to low. I never have all 3 wires connected at one time. I also assumed the ground was common (to engine, chasis, etc), but I don't really understand floating grounds. I've done some light reading and so far it escapes me. My best understanding of floating grounds are car speakers. Each speaker is not grounded to the chasis. They are grounded via the amp.

It's been a while since the car has been sitting and I wired in the fan and relay. I'll let you know where the fan is grounded a little later today/tonight...after I dig into the wiring.

Found this Taurus e-fan wiring diagram with a little googling on a DSM forum



If this diagram is correct, the fan body provides the ground (-) return, and there are 2 other wires - a high & low speed (+). Here it's rigged up so that whenever the switched +12V is on, and the "temp probe switch" is closed, the fan runs at low speed, and when the "AC Clutch wire" is providing +12V, that 2nd relay switches the fan to high speed. Note also they mention the high current draw when the fan starts up on high, and they recommend using a 75A relay, and the fuse to the battery is a 50-70A, and "normal" current draw on high speed is ~34A! Sounds like an alternator upgrade will be in order if you still have a stock FC alternator in there.

[RETed]

I just want to comment on the current draw #'s...

Holy soda crackers Batman!
Trying to find a 75A+ relay is encroaching on the realm of "soleniods."
It's going to be difficult to find a quality relay rated that high from most common electronics parts vendors.
If you do find one, I'd bet it'll be pretty expensive too?

I was looking around for a 50A rated relay recently, and I ended up with an NTE one (Made in China) for about $10.

34A of current is a lot of juice for a single fan.
I'm sure there's other, aftermarket fans that'll run almost the same airflow for less current - i.e. more efficient.
We're talking minimum wire thickness at least 10AWG...8AWG?
Of course, you can't beat the price of a used fan...
But it looks at this point that the fan is faulty, so gambling with used equipment comes into play now.


-Ted

[JustJeff]

Took a break from being in the garage. I googled 3 pin taurus also and came up with this

http://www.astrosafari.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=14220



What I need to find out is if the diagram and fan I'm using is as simple as keeping just high or low, but not both. Gonna go out to the garage and verify that my fan pin out is the same.

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by Pete_89T2

Found this Taurus e-fan wiring diagram with a little googling on a DSM forum



If this diagram is correct, the fan body provides the ground (-) return, and there are 2 other wires - a high & low speed (+). Here it's rigged up so that whenever the switched +12V is on, and the "temp probe switch" is closed, the fan runs at low speed, and when the "AC Clutch wire" is providing +12V, that 2nd relay switches the fan to high speed. Note also they mention the high current draw when the fan starts up on high, and they recommend using a 75A relay, and the fuse to the battery is a 50-70A, and "normal" current draw on high speed is ~34A! Sounds like an alternator upgrade will be in order if you still have a stock FC alternator in there.

I've got a modded S5 alt (140amps). Looks like the diagram you provided works off of one temp switch, but both high and low are wired into the diagram.

I'm content using either high or low. I don't really want to mess around with finding a location for a second temp switch. Is the diagram I was using ok, provided I have correct wires for ground, low+, and high+?

Originally Posted by RETed

I just want to comment on the current draw #'s...

Holy soda crackers Batman!
Trying to find a 75A+ relay is encroaching on the realm of "soleniods."
It's going to be difficult to find a quality relay rated that high from most common electronics parts vendors.
If you do find one, I'd bet it'll be pretty expensive too?

I was looking around for a 50A rated relay recently, and I ended up with an NTE one (Made in China) for about $10.

34A of current is a lot of juice for a single fan.
I'm sure there's other, aftermarket fans that'll run almost the same airflow for less current - i.e. more efficient.
We're talking minimum wire thickness at least 10AWG...8AWG?
Of course, you can't beat the price of a used fan...
But it looks at this point that the fan is faulty, so gambling with used equipment comes into play now.


-Ted

I had the same problem finding a 50A relay. No one in town has one... I'm using a 40A relay now..which I thought would be ok. I got annoyed and put 10AWG wiring all around for the fan, relay, manual switch.

I don't know that the fan is faulty. I was playing around with both my fans today (mounted and spare). They both behave the same way. They both pull air on low and push air on high. That leads me to believe that the problem is not the fans...but user error instead.

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

I've got a modded S5 alt (140amps). Looks like the diagram you provided works off of one temp switch, but both high and low are wired into the diagram.

I'm content using either high or low. I don't really want to mess around with finding a location for a second temp switch. Is the diagram I was using ok, provided I have correct wires for ground, low+, and high+?

If you're content to run at one speed, the wiring diagram you have should work, provided you find the correct ground wire. BTW, where did you get your S5 alternator modded to crank out 140A? Who does this and what does it cost?

Originally Posted by JustJeff

I had the same problem finding a 50A relay. No one in town has one... I'm using a 40A relay now..which I thought would be ok. I got annoyed and put 10AWG wiring all around for the fan, relay, manual switch.

I don't know that the fan is faulty. I was playing around with both my fans today (mounted and spare). They both behave the same way. They both pull air on low and push air on high. That leads me to believe that the problem is not the fans...but user error instead.

Yup, I'm pretty sure you've got your ground wire mixed up with one of the high or low speed + terminals.

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by Pete_89T2

If you're content to run at one speed, the wiring diagram you have should work, provided you find the correct ground wire. BTW, where did you get your S5 alternator modded to crank out 140A? Who does this and what does it cost?




Yup, I'm pretty sure you've got your ground wire mixed up with one of the high or low speed + terminals.

I'm content with it that way for now. Once I've worked all the bugs out and am driving my rebuild regularly and reliably (ie: have worked out my fan issue and running hot issue) I'll go back and add features.

I got the alt off of ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-Mazda-R...341811&vxp=mtr

One year warranty on their work and so far I've only had typical modded alt issues. There is talk about this over on the evil forum, but here is my best explanation of it. Because the alt is wound with higher gauge wire it needs to spin faster to reach 14v and recharging. So at idle it does not charge at 14v. As soon as idle hits even 1k it jumps up to 14v. So sitting at a light your battery is draining. Add a big drain like this monster efan and it does make me nervous. BUT I prefer this to not being able to fit a Taurus alt or even an FD alt under my TMIC.

And yes, my wiring was screwed up. I had ground going to fused constant. I have everything put back together and am about to take it around the block a few times and see if I throw the circuit breaker.

As a sidenote, the 3 pin wiring is very odd on this fan. I spent far too much time playing with the wires and a spare battery and seeing what the different combinations of wires did to my spare fan. Some combinations of wires using the low pin did create the correct direction (pull), but it didn't seem as strong as the correct low. I'm hoping that my faulty wiring is the cause of my overheating and blowing fuses. I will take a drive in summer heat and be in good shape....we shall see.

Well, it's not exactly conclusive...but temps drop like they should. I got temps up to 200ish going around the block. Once it was up to 190ish I brought it home and popped the hood. Used my temp gun cause I want to see when the fan switch is activating. Fan triggers on at 200. It turns off at around 185-190. Once I had the fan running and temps up to 200 I took it back out for a drive. The circuit never tripped (that I noticed). Temps dropped and it turned off. I was only driving around the block (had to leave for family dinner at my sister's). So I couldn't really drive it and test it. BUT I turned the fan home for the rest of the drive back to the garage and it the circuit never tripped. The whole trip temps never got about 205ish.....hopefully I have found my fix.

[incubus]

Any new news with this?

[JustJeff]

I've been away from the car and site for some time. It appears that in the process of working out my efan I overheated the engine. It has all the signs of coolant seal leak. Had to start after it's been warmed up. White and sweet exhaust on start up. Fouled plugs.

It's been so hot out that I haven't felt like working on it. Now that it's cooled off some I'll start addressing some issues.

I did pick some a pair of Crown Vic wheels. The paint on them is gorgeous and near perfect. I'm in the process of stripping the lips so that I can polish them. Though I'm not really in a rush to get it done.

[4port]

nice work

[JustJeff]

The engine is being re-rebuilt to fix the coolant seal leak. The engine has about 2k on the break-in of 4k because I replaced the stat gear bearings. I'll start getting the engine ready to pull very soon.

Here is my shopping list thus far, let me know if I'm missing anything:

O-ring kit, there is a more expensive one but I believe this one has everything I'll need
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/89-92-Turbo-Rx7-O-Ring-Kit-N370-10-S60.html

Front gasket cover, though I may do the RX-8 modded cover. There is always the chance that I botch the modded RX-8 gasket. Trying to decide if I want to add variables where they are not really needed.
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/86-92-...86-10-502.html

Oil pan gasket
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/86-92-...Y0-10-427.html

I'd like opinions on whether to replace my exhaust gaskets, both engine to manifold and manifold to turbo. I put new ones on shortly after my rebuild so they have less than 2k miles on them.

[RETed]

Sorry to hear it didn't end well...

Yeah, just need to replace the soft seals.
The metal (exhaust) gaskets can be reused.
As long as there is no signs of cracking on the inside edges, the metal gaskets are fine to reuse.


-Ted

[JustJeff]

^ Thanks Ted
The problems were my own dumb fault. I didn't setup my efan properly and it cost me. Lesson learned.

I need to test a few things before I pull the engine. The engine started behaving strangely in that it bogs down when boost pressure builds. The more quickly boost is building the worse it bogs down. However this is a sudden change. It was building what boost I'd allow the engine to see just fine. I've got my MBC set to zero so it's purging as much pressure as the wastegate will allow. It never had this problem till just recently and suddenly.


I'm hoping it's fouled plugs. My plugs are fouling so the engine runs great when fresh ones are put in and within a couple weeks you can hear and feel a change in the engine as they foul. Any other thoughts on what it could be? TPS, timing...anything else anyone can think of?

Other little things I've thought of for my shopping list:
Because I'd rather replace the $3 part than pull my oil pan
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/70-95-...10-14-171.html

Because I swapped a known good level sender and did not replace the o-ring...which led to an annoying leak.
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/81-95-...26-10-T11.html

I'm also giving thought to pulling only the engine and leaving the tranny. Reason being, I have Royal Purple fluid in the tranny. I can drain it and save it, but in that process some will be lost and I don't want to buy another bottle simply to top it off. Seems that the engine pull would be much easier, but putting it in will be tougher. Any thoughts from more experienced members?

[RETed]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

I'm hoping it's fouled plugs. My plugs are fouling so the engine runs great when fresh ones are put in and within a couple weeks you can hear and feel a change in the engine as they foul. Any other thoughts on what it could be? TPS, timing...anything else anyone can think of?

Hard to say, but to cause spark plugs to foul that badly and that quickly means something is really out of whack.
The engine will run with quite a bit more fuel that needed and timing off by as much as 10-degrees (or slightly more) without giving a hint of something is wrong.
You're not running really cold plugs - colder than 9's?

I'm also giving thought to pulling only the engine and leaving the tranny. Reason being, I have Royal Purple fluid in the tranny. I can drain it and save it, but in that process some will be lost and I don't want to buy another bottle simply to top it off. Seems that the engine pull would be much easier, but putting it in will be tougher. Any thoughts from more experienced members?

I'm one of those weird ones that prefer to leave the trans in place...
Would love to have the space and equipment to handle both the trans and the engine install at the same time, but in most cases, this is the opposite.
With the aide of an engine tilter (this REALLY helps), installing the engine back into the trans usually takes me about 15 minutes.
The PITA part is alternating the trans bolts between top and bottom - you end up with quite a work-out!


-Ted

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by RETed

Hard to say, but to cause spark plugs to foul that badly and that quickly means something is really out of whack.
The engine will run with quite a bit more fuel that needed and timing off by as much as 10-degrees (or slightly more) without giving a hint of something is wrong.
You're not running really cold plugs - colder than 9's?
-Ted

I've alternated between stock 7 and 9's and using all 9's. IIRC it is stock 7 and 9s in there now. The couple of weeks thing on the plugs fouling may have been an exageration. The car has sat a couple months without driving it so it's my best recall. But over time I can hear the exhaust tone change as they foul. I'm going to replace them just before i pull the engine to see how that effects the boost problem. I'll get some pics of the plugs and post them. In fact, I'll get the plugs today.

[JustJeff]

Plugs had to be ordered and they will be here on Tues.

One thing I forgot to mention. I had always assumed the fouling plugs is due to coolant seal leak. Thoughts on this?