Plain Jane OEM nothing to see here rebuild

[JustJeff]

Reporting back:

Got a dual belt pulley on over the weekend and took the car for a drive tonight. Obviously it's much cooler tonight than it was Memorial weekend (100°). It took much much longer to heat up and was cooling down with the efan blowing at lights. BUT temps did get up to just below 220°.

Oil temps seemed about normal at 200° and pressure seemed normal at between like 30psi and 60psi.

1. I've checked my radiator hoses they aren't collapsing.
2. I did what I could to test for cold spots on the radiator but did not have time to take the undertray off and feel the front of the radiator. I simply stuck my hand between fan blades and felt with my fingers...all the spots I could check seemed the same temp.
3. The top passenger corner of the fan shroud does not sit snuggly at all. I can pull it off the radiator by about 1/3 of an inch. I'll resecure that, but I wouldn't think it would have that much of an effect.
4. I'll go through and put some foam around oil cooler, condensor and radiator...just to make sure.

One thing I'm curious about is my oil cooler. It seems like I have a pinhole somewhere in the oil cooler. I keep finding oil pooling up on the bottom of the radiator and in other strange places around the oil cooler. I had a failure on one of my oil cooler hoses on one of my first drives after rebuild. It created a fountain of oil. I had thought that oil on the bottom of the radiator was simply gravity from me not being able to get the oil cleaned up off of everything (ie: fan blades, fan shroud, etc). Reason I bring this up is I'm curious if I do have a pinhole and I am loosing hot oil..and it happens to be on the radiator fins...seems like that could cause the radiator to not cool as well. Any opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.

[GySgtFrank]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

One thing I'm curious about is my oil cooler. It seems like I have a pinhole somewhere in the oil cooler. I keep finding oil pooling up on the bottom of the radiator and in other strange places around the oil cooler. I had a failure on one of my oil cooler hoses on one of my first drives after rebuild. It created a fountain of oil. I had thought that oil on the bottom of the radiator was simply gravity from me not being able to get the oil cleaned up off of everything (ie: fan blades, fan shroud, etc). Reason I bring this up is I'm curious if I do have a pinhole and I am loosing hot oil..and it happens to be on the radiator fins...seems like that could cause the radiator to not cool as well. Any opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.

I had a similar problem with oil on the bottom of the radiator. It turned out to be that the crush washers weren't sealing. It only showed up when the oil pressure came up. The washers are supposed to be replaced any time you crack the hose loose.

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by GySgtFrank

I had a similar problem with oil on the bottom of the radiator. It turned out to be that the crush washers weren't sealing. It only showed up when the oil pressure came up. The washers are supposed to be replaced any time you crack the hose loose.

Thanks for the heads up. I did not replace them when I replaced the leaking hose. I don't remember if I replaced them when I did my rebuild. New ones sounds like a good starting point.

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

Thanks for the heads up. I did not replace them when I replaced the leaking hose. I don't remember if I replaced them when I did my rebuild. New ones sounds like a good starting point.

You'll also want to be careful not to overtighten those banjo bolts on the cooler. If you do, the result is often a hairline crack in the oil cooler where the theaded hole is machined, which causes a leak.

[JustJeff]

Need some electrical advice.

Is it possible for my efan to be pulling air on low, but pushing air on high? It's a 3 wire taurus efan. I have not been using high setting until this past weekend. I noticed it tonight because I was testing my fans. I have a spare and was swapping the wiring on the car to test to see if my spare one also caused the my 40amp reseting circuit breaker to trip. It was not so I switched back to my mounted fan. I had the car idling and efan on highbwith a manual switch. I wanted to check my battery with my multitester to see what high was doing to my battery. I had air blowing out from the bumper grill onto my shins and feet. With the engine still running I swapped the wiring to the low and the fan direction changed directions.

I've been told this is not possible...but I saw it with my own eyes....felt it with my own shins.

[GySgtFrank]

If the fan is having to be dragged to a stop and reverse directions that would explain blowing a 40A circuit breaker. Check to see if in fact the fan blade is reversing direction from low to high. if so does the spare fan do this too? If it does, there is something going on with the way it's wired. If it doesn't there is something internal to the fan that is truly screwy.

[Pete_89T2]

Any DC motor only needs 2 teminals to run - a positive (+) and negitive (-). Reverse those two and the direction the motor spins changes. Based on what you're seeing, once verifed as Gunny suggests, your wiring must be switching polarity somehow.

Do you have a electrical schematic diagram of the Taurus fan motor assembly or can you draw one up from what you've got? Any relays and resistors in there? When it was installed in a Taurus, was the fan motor grounded to the car's body/engine, or was it a floating ground due to it being mounted on rubber isolators/plastic? We'll need this type of info to steer you in the right direction.

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by GySgtFrank

If the fan is having to be dragged to a stop and reverse directions that would explain blowing a 40A circuit breaker. Check to see if in fact the fan blade is reversing direction from low to high. if so does the spare fan do this too? If it does, there is something going on with the way it's wired. If it doesn't there is something internal to the fan that is truly screwy.

I don't have both high and low speeds setup on individual switches. I have both high and low with spade terminals and I switch them out. Was going to keep it that way temporarily...till I work out my issues. That being said, it wasn't switching from low to high. I manually/physically switch them. It's on high and while driving that on high the circuit breaker trips. I haven't been able to recreate the problem while idling and working on the car. BUT once it starts doing it (while driving) it will continue to do it while idling. I simply have not been able to get it to start doing it while idling.

Originally Posted by Pete_89T2

Any DC motor only needs 2 teminals to run - a positive (+) and negitive (-). Reverse those two and the direction the motor spins changes. Based on what you're seeing, once verifed as Gunny suggests, your wiring must be switching polarity somehow.

Do you have a electrical schematic diagram of the Taurus fan motor assembly or can you draw one up from what you've got? Any relays and resistors in there? When it was installed in a Taurus, was the fan motor grounded to the car's body/engine, or was it a floating ground due to it being mounted on rubber isolators/plastic? We'll need this type of info to steer you in the right direction.

Excellent point on the diagram. I do have one buried in this thread. I gotta head to work (half day on Sat. cause I took time off this week), but I'll post up the diagram once I get to work.

It can only be two things. Either my wiring is wrong ie: did not follow diagram correctly or the fan is faulty. My plan after work is to dig into my wiring.

It's just very odd that on one speed it spins correctly and on the other it doesn't. I'd think it would have to be consistent direction on both.

[JustJeff]

Here is the diagram



I have not added the idle up yet. It can only be one of two things. Either my wiring isn't following the diagram, or the fan is faulty.

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

Here is the diagram



I have not added the idle up yet. It can only be one of two things. Either my wiring isn't following the diagram, or the fan is faulty.

Maybe I'm missing something from an earlier post. Your schematic diagram shows a 2 wire fan motor (just + and - terminals), but you also said it was a 3 wire Taurus fan. Where is the 3rd wire in this diagram, and is this motor grounded or does it have a floating ground?

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by Pete_89T2

Maybe I'm missing something from an earlier post. Your schematic diagram shows a 2 wire fan motor (just + and - terminals), but you also said it was a 3 wire Taurus fan. Where is the 3rd wire in this diagram, and is this motor grounded or does it have a floating ground?

Sounds like I might have assumed too much. I assumed difference between 2 wire and 3 wire Taurus fans was that 2 wire was 1 speed and 3 wire was 2 speed. I also assumed that for my 3 wire fan that I had one common ground and 2 different +. + for low and + for high. I assumed that the diagram was for either high or low, but not for both. I physically swap wires to go from high to low. I never have all 3 wires connected at one time. I also assumed the ground was common (to engine, chasis, etc), but I don't really understand floating grounds. I've done some light reading and so far it escapes me. My best understanding of floating grounds are car speakers. Each speaker is not grounded to the chasis. They are grounded via the amp.

It's been a while since the car has been sitting and I wired in the fan and relay. I'll let you know where the fan is grounded a little later today/tonight...after I dig into the wiring.

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

Sounds like I might have assumed too much. I assumed difference between 2 wire and 3 wire Taurus fans was that 2 wire was 1 speed and 3 wire was 2 speed. I also assumed that for my 3 wire fan that I had one common ground and 2 different +. + for low and + for high. I assumed that the diagram was for either high or low, but not for both. I physically swap wires to go from high to low. I never have all 3 wires connected at one time. I also assumed the ground was common (to engine, chasis, etc), but I don't really understand floating grounds. I've done some light reading and so far it escapes me. My best understanding of floating grounds are car speakers. Each speaker is not grounded to the chasis. They are grounded via the amp.

It's been a while since the car has been sitting and I wired in the fan and relay. I'll let you know where the fan is grounded a little later today/tonight...after I dig into the wiring.

Found this Taurus e-fan wiring diagram with a little googling on a DSM forum



If this diagram is correct, the fan body provides the ground (-) return, and there are 2 other wires - a high & low speed (+). Here it's rigged up so that whenever the switched +12V is on, and the "temp probe switch" is closed, the fan runs at low speed, and when the "AC Clutch wire" is providing +12V, that 2nd relay switches the fan to high speed. Note also they mention the high current draw when the fan starts up on high, and they recommend using a 75A relay, and the fuse to the battery is a 50-70A, and "normal" current draw on high speed is ~34A! Sounds like an alternator upgrade will be in order if you still have a stock FC alternator in there.

[RETed]

I just want to comment on the current draw #'s...

Holy soda crackers Batman!
Trying to find a 75A+ relay is encroaching on the realm of "soleniods."
It's going to be difficult to find a quality relay rated that high from most common electronics parts vendors.
If you do find one, I'd bet it'll be pretty expensive too?

I was looking around for a 50A rated relay recently, and I ended up with an NTE one (Made in China) for about $10.

34A of current is a lot of juice for a single fan.
I'm sure there's other, aftermarket fans that'll run almost the same airflow for less current - i.e. more efficient.
We're talking minimum wire thickness at least 10AWG...8AWG?
Of course, you can't beat the price of a used fan...
But it looks at this point that the fan is faulty, so gambling with used equipment comes into play now.


-Ted

[GySgtFrank]

(re: tripping 40A breaker) It sounds like a faulty fan to me. When under load something is overheating (board warpage?) and doesn't quit until it cools down enough. Just my WAG. I had a Ford ignition module do this to me once and it drove me crazy until I finally found it. It would test fine when cooled off. Wiring? on fan reversal.

[JustJeff]

Took a break from being in the garage. I googled 3 pin taurus also and came up with this

http://www.astrosafari.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=14220



What I need to find out is if the diagram and fan I'm using is as simple as keeping just high or low, but not both. Gonna go out to the garage and verify that my fan pin out is the same.