Drifting, hellaflush, slammed, tire stretch blog/bash thread.

[vex]

Thanks for quoting.

Originally Posted by sofaking

I agree. The more things that are outside of design the higher the risk. I would agree risk goes up with tire stretching. In your opinion would you think that it is more dangerous to blow out a stretched tire than a blowout for any other reason? If so, why?

Yes. As the tire is already stressed outside of spec; damage to the wheel is more than likely to result (not to be confused with the tire). Normal blow out allows for material sacrifice to save the wheel. This is of course dependent upon the amount of stretch on the tire. The closer the stretch is to stock spec the more material will be available to sacrifice in maintaining the wheel.

Obviously this is a reference to driving within the laws of the road you're traveling on, not assuming some sweet jdm drift battle on the mountain with a bunch of morons trying to get youtube footage with thier friends in the car.

I also found this one (and a couple others of different particle mesh size) but no mechanical properties are listed.
http://www.matweb.com/search/DataShe...0718874&ckck=1

I didn't see a way to post it here that would be easy to read so I separated the fields using astrix..


Would you mind explaining what the "elongation at break" field means? It seems at a glance that it would mean that it can stretch 1-8x its length before breaking... that seems like a HUGE range.

Elongation at break is the elongation of the material at catastrophic failure during a tensile test. During material testing they install a test piece similar in design to these:

Elongation is the final distance (if given in percentage the final distance divided by the original) the sample is able to make it. This is not the same as failure (encroachment into plastic region of deformation).

[RotorDad]

Okay I have said it before at a pro level most of what I have seen the cars don't have stretched tires. The reason for the comparison is actually simple when you look at it. When defending the issue by saying it's a drifting thing, then why do some of the best at the sport not use it? To say because the driver doesn't wrench on the car is stupid at best, they are the ones driving the damn car. The car is set up accordingly & I'm sure that theses guys don't just sit around while others work on the car. Within the team they work together to find the best results Drivers & Mechanics.

[sofaking]

Originally Posted by vex

Yes. As the tire is already stressed outside of spec; damage to the wheel is more than likely to result (not to be confused with the tire). Normal blow out allows for material sacrifice to save the wheel. This is of course dependent upon the amount of stretch on the tire. The closer the stretch is to stock spec the more material will be available to sacrifice in maintaining the wheel.

I don't mean more damage to the things I own. I mean more dangerous. I.E. am I more likely to die or more kill someone else based on a blow out because of a stretched tire instead of a non-stretched tire? In my experience when you have a blow out you're driving on a shitty little band of rubber wrapped around the wheel flopping around like an epileptic on meth. Would a blow out with a stretched tire be worse or harder to control in some way?

Originally Posted by vex

This is not the same as failure (encroachment into plastic region of deformation).

The explaination was what I was looking for (the picture helped). I wasn't relating this to tires though, I was just wondering why the technical information about the material had such a wide range of data. Seems either really unpredictable or there is a lot of data that we aren't getting. I would imagine to have an 800% discrepancy there would have to be a lot of tests with different compounds, temperatures, etc.

[vex]

Originally Posted by sofaking

I don't mean more damage to the things I own. I mean more dangerous. I.E. am I more likely to die or more kill someone else based on a blow out because of a stretched tire instead of a non-stretched tire? In my experience when you have a blow out you're driving on a shitty little band of rubber wrapped around the wheel flopping around like an epileptic on meth. Would a blow out with a stretched tire be worse or harder to control in some way?

Yes it would be more dangerous as you would be trying to drive on metal instead of rubber. The dynamic coefficient of friction is small when compared to rubber, thus control is going to be more difficult. If the blow out happens on the front you will have very little or no response from that tire. The rears will be similar. This is of course holding that the failure is on the material side of things.

The explaination was what I was looking for (the picture helped). I wasn't relating this to tires though, I was just wondering why the technical information about the material had such a wide range of data. Seems either really unpredictable or there is a lot of data that we aren't getting. I would imagine to have an 800% discrepancy there would have to be a lot of tests with different compounds, temperatures, etc.

Tests are standardized. Temperature is a variable that can be tested for as for different mixtures of vulcanized rubber (that's where the proprietary rights begins coming in).

[sofaking]

Michael Essa (Pro) - drift missle (personal non-sponsored drift piece of shit)

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2010...car-party.aspx

Not that it's saying anything, just showing a pro with stretched tires. I'm sure it would not be as competative in the pros to stretch tires. Wider tire = more grip = more control. His pro car doesn't have stretched tires either though.

[sofaking]

Originally Posted by vex

Yes it would be more dangerous as you would be trying to drive on metal instead of rubber. The dynamic coefficient of friction is small when compared to rubber, thus control is going to be more difficult. If the blow out happens on the front you will have very little or no response from that tire. The rears will be similar. This is of course holding that the failure is on the material side of things.

I've never had a stretched tire blow out on the streets. But I've taken it on the track knowing that I've only got another lap and 1/2 left on the tires and go anyway just because it's funny to hear a tire blow out (not on tracks with walls). I've never damaged a wheel driving it back to the pits. I have however scratched the crap out of the side of my car when a non-stretched tire de-laminated on me and the tread swung down the side of my quarter panel repeatedly until I got into the pit. I've not noticed a difference between a stretched and non-stretched tire poping from going past the cords. If the material was the part that failed this should result in the sidewall blowing out? Then what's left of the sidewall would fold over resulting in driving on the wheel?

[Rotary no Densetsu]

Originally Posted by RotorDad

Okay I have said it before at a pro level most of what I have seen the cars don't have stretched tires. The reason for the comparison is actually simple when you look at it. When defending the issue by saying it's a drifting thing, then why do some of the best at the sport not use it? To say because the driver doesn't wrench on the car is stupid at best, they are the ones driving the damn car. The car is set up accordingly & I'm sure that theses guys don't just sit around while others work on the car. Within the team they work together to find the best results Drivers & Mechanics.

You should check out some of the D1GP cars then. Many of them run stretched tires and such.

You'd be wrong with your assumption about the guys working on their cars here and there. All of the "big" cars, ie team Falken and such are kept and built here in Charlotte. I'm friends with the owner of the shop.

Most of those guys don't touch their own cars, period. At least, as little as possible. The car is set up, shipped to events, they drive it. Bam, that's it. There are a few guys in Formula D that work on their cars, but most of them don't.

Essa also runs stretched tires on his old pro car, the Bimmer.

In fact, the neon wheels on the back of that FC are off of his Bimmer. Just throwing that out there.

But yeah, the million dollar race program drivers don't run stretched tires, but most everyone else does. I don't really care for it, like I've said. But it's still there.

[RotorDad]

I didn't say they built the car, I said they are involved with how it's set up. What I was saying is that just because they are not the ones doing the mods to the car doesn't mean that their insight on how the car is responding is not used. I said they are the ones driving/tracking the car. You say D1GP & what is your point? You said it yourself "Many of them run stretch tires" the key word being many not all! I already stated that some drifters use it & some don't right? My question was if it were so much better then the other then why not all run stretched. Anyways I will say it again if you feel the need to stretch tires keep it on the track where the drifters say it's needed. No sense in driving your daily around like that, I would think a person has enough common sense not to brake out into a drift on a public road. If it works for the car in the situation it's intended for all good with me.

[TitaniumTT]

Sorry, had to

[Rotary no Densetsu]

lmao

RotorDad, it's all a matter of personal taste. Some guys like it, some guys don't. That's pretty much all it boils down to.

[josh18_2k]

edit: oopsnvm

[vex]

Originally Posted by sofaking

I've never had a stretched tire blow out on the streets. But I've taken it on the track knowing that I've only got another lap and 1/2 left on the tires and go anyway just because it's funny to hear a tire blow out (not on tracks with walls). I've never damaged a wheel driving it back to the pits. I have however scratched the crap out of the side of my car when a non-stretched tire de-laminated on me and the tread swung down the side of my quarter panel repeatedly until I got into the pit. I've not noticed a difference between a stretched and non-stretched tire poping from going past the cords. If the material was the part that failed this should result in the sidewall blowing out?

Depends on where the break occurs. In my initial thought the stretch is sufficient that the force of the car is compressing the tire to the point where the rubber is not able to keep the lip of the wheel from making contact.

Then what's left of the sidewall would fold over resulting in driving on the wheel?

Not too sure what you mean here.

[sofaking]

I haven't had a tire fail due to the stretch before, only from going through the cords. I've had stretched tires blow out at 50+ mph while drifting and not have the wheel contact the pavement. In my experience blow outs on a drift car are more damaging to the paint/body and exhaust (from dragging) than the occupants of the car (other people on the road, spectators, confused chimpanzees at the zoo, insert situation here).

[sofaking]

Originally Posted by vex

"Rome wasn't built in a day... but it sure fell in one"

Where did this quote in your signature come from?

[vex]

It's a variation on an old adage that I say sometimes which is neither true nor accurate, unless you count the burning of Rome as the fall.