REW Sequential Dyno - very uncommon results

[TitaniumTT]

I figured I put this in the 3rd gen section as you guys would have the most interest in the project, results and have the most informed critism.

A quick rundown of what's involved here
13B-RE block and mani's. Rebuilt, cryo'ed and ported.
Intake ports were SMP med intake that I spent hours cleaning up the bowls and runners. Portmatched LIM to block, UIM to LIM
"Cosmo" housings with REW sleeves and I used the Pineapple Race EP2A template.
RX8 eshaft and stat gears
S6 rotors

Turbo's are bone stock REW sequentials run non-seq (for the time being, going back in a few weeks to get the seq working) with the exception that I had everything ceramic coated from Anthony Bulger - Street Tuner and I modified the y-pipe to elimate the stock bypass valve and my own efini style x-over pipe.

I built my own HMIC setup and modified the standard Greedy TB Elbow to suit my needs

Running a Motec M820 and using Rob Bailey solenoids to control the sequentials.

Running 93 oct, OMP injecting Idemitsu premix and running about 1/3oz/gal in the tank. After 2500 miles the compression is still rock solid and hasn't fallen off at all. It seems to get slightly better by maybe 1% so I believe the ratios are right on the money.

So, what are the results? I was actually VERY surprised. Using the Motec's datalogging we were running about 160-165kpa which is ~8.7-9.4 lbs of boost. Call it 9lbs. At 9lbs of boost running non-sequential but all of the sequential hardware in place Dave @ KDR and I made 328.88 RWHP with torque climbing all the way to 6800 and hp not starting to fall off until 7300. Current redline is set @ 7500. Pretty conservative timing and running .8L or ~11.7 afr.



And a vid



Has anyone ever seen numbers this high using the stock twins at that boost level? I have plans to go back to KDR in search of 400 RWHP @ 15 lbs of boost with the sequentials working. They'll work, we just need some time on the dyno to get them sorted out and functioning properly. The highest that we've seen was 402 with the stock twins. However, that was a half bridge motor running 18lbs of boost. The turbo's lasted 300 miles.

[dudemaaan]

Those are really good numbers, especially for less then stock FD boost level. Usually it takes about 13 psi to make that kind of power with the stock twins, sometimes even more then that. Good tuning afr too. Right where you should be, not too rich and not too lean.

[TitaniumTT]

That's what I've found as well as what Dave has experienced. I'm heading back in a week or two to up the boost to 15lbs and see where we land. We're hoping it's north of 400 wheel and from his experience, and my research, we think it's possible. I'm very pleased. Now I'm left wondering exactely what did it? More than likely it's the entire package though.

I agree with you and Dave on the AFR's, 11.7 or .8L is just about as perfect as you can get. EGT's peak around 1700* with timing @ ~17*. It almost seems like she wants a touch more timing. There is about an 80* difference in temp between the front & rear rotor and regardless what we do it's ALWAYS there under full load. Cruise it's just about dead on but as load increases, so does the difference.

[dudemaaan]

Yeah thats pretty conservative timing, could try a bit more and see if the power keeps going up. Once the torque stops increasing, or drops off then back it off slightly.
.
You will always have the difference in chamber temps. The rear always seems to run a bit hotter. It seems regardless of the setup and changes people try, the difference is always there. My only theory is the water cools the front first and can't cool the rear as effectively, heat is more retained in the rear hense the temp differences.

[David Jerome]

Here is my take on it. 1st, every car that is dynoed at KDR has higher than usual numbers, this is not a knock on the shop at all but simpley every car I see dyno there has higher than usual numbers. Either he is doing something incredible no one else is doing or his dyno is generous, Ill let you decide on that. Id be interested to see you dyno it at another location with the same type of dyno and see how similar the results are.

2nd, I made 295rwhp on 8lbs back in 02 or 03 and no one believed me. Auto/Manual swap car, stock ecu, 8lbs, sequential, full 3 inch exhaust with a carbon ti muffler, pettit intake, simplified sequential, greddy pullies and I think a pettit underdrive pulley but cant remember. I dont think I have had a car to this day that pulled like that one on 8lbs. Before I sold it I installed a pettit ecu and ran it on 14lbs(didnt know better back then) and I swear that car had to be making close to 350rwhp as it pulled like no other stock sequential car I have been in since. Some cars/setups just work better than others, sounds like yours is running good.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by David Jerome

Here is my take on it. 1st, every car that is dynoed at KDR has higher than usual numbers, this is not a knock on the shop at all but simpley every car I see dyno there has higher than usual numbers. Either he is doing something incredible no one else is doing or his dyno is generous, Ill let you decide on that. Id be interested to see you dyno it at another location with the same type of dyno and see how similar the results are.

I accept that challenge. I've been witness to a ton of dyno's there and alot of them seem to fall where they should, some even lower than I would've thought. I'm inclined to disagree with the statement that EVERY car that's passed through those doors dyno's higher than it should. That's a pretty bold statement. Not to sound belligerent or like a prick but "every" is bold. We also overlapped a bunch of dyno's of other sequentials that had been there and they were all right were you'd expect them to be.

I'll admit, I'm curious though. After we get her settled to 15lbs I'll hit a local dyno. There's one literally 1/2 mile from my house. They have a DynoJet 424x. I BELIEVE Dave has a 242x. Either way I'm not going to be able to find a 2wd dyno around here. Too many scubi's and devolutions running around. When she's set to 15lb's I'll be able to trim the boost back with the trim switch on the dash. Before I leave Dave's I'll make one run @ 9lbs, and the last at 15lbs. That day or the next I'll head to one of the 2 local guys and make the same two runs and put the results here.

Originally Posted by David Jerome

2nd, I made 295rwhp on 8lbs back in 02 or 03 and no one believed me. Auto/Manual swap car, stock ecu, 8lbs, sequential, full 3 inch exhaust with a carbon ti muffler, pettit intake, simplified sequential, greddy pullies and I think a pettit underdrive pulley but cant remember. I dont think I have had a car to this day that pulled like that one on 8lbs. Before I sold it I installed a pettit ecu and ran it on 14lbs(didnt know better back then) and I swear that car had to be making close to 350rwhp as it pulled like no other stock sequential car I have been in since. Some cars/setups just work better than others, sounds like yours is running good.

Thank you. Honestly, in my case, I'm inclined to think that it's the package itself as a whole. Everything that I've done to make things as effiecent as possible. All the ceramic coating, the porting, polishing, portmatching, HMIC, just everything coming together to be one really sweet well matched package. Of couse the insane tolerances and time spent rebuilding the engine didn't hurt either

[sbrian2]

Looks good, but needs more torks. Dan Chadwick's car made similar power at those boost levels, but his torque is insane for a rotary. Of course his is sequential, but it makes over 200 ft-lbs at the hit of the throttle at 2500 rpm and well his torque curve is more like a plateau than a curve and I don't recall where we maxed out, maybe Dan will chime in with a dyno plot. Our results were still with a very conservative tune since we didn't want to risk blowing anything up prior to Nationals. Over the winter, we will see what it is capable of.

[David Jerome]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

I accept that challenge. I've been witness to a ton of dyno's there and alot of them seem to fall where they should, some even lower than I would've thought. I'm inclined to disagree with the statement that EVERY car that's passed through those doors dyno's higher than it should. That's a pretty bold statement. Not to sound belligerent or like a prick but "every" is bold. We also overlapped a bunch of dyno's of other sequentials that had been there and they were all right were you'd expect them to be.

I'll admit, I'm curious though. After we get her settled to 15lbs I'll hit a local dyno. There's one literally 1/2 mile from my house. They have a DynoJet 424x. I BELIEVE Dave has a 242x. Either way I'm not going to be able to find a 2wd dyno around here. Too many scubi's and devolutions running around. When she's set to 15lb's I'll be able to trim the boost back with the trim switch on the dash. Before I leave Dave's I'll make one run @ 9lbs, and the last at 15lbs. That day or the next I'll head to one of the 2 local guys and make the same two runs and put the results here.

"Every" is bold, but his shop seems to put out higher numbers than what is usual/typical, like rx7store used to back in the day. This is in no way meant to be a knock on anyone or these shops, just saying, some dynos read higher than others. I would be interested to see the results on a dyno dynamics dyno if possible, it will likely be a awd dyno but you can still dyno your car on it.

[dudemaaan]

He will pick up quite a bit of power down low once he gets the sequential working. Plus depending on his porting and such it might be sacrificing some torque for power on top.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by sbrian2

Looks good, but needs more torks. Dan Chadwick's car made similar power at those boost levels, but his torque is insane for a rotary. Of course his is sequential, but it makes over 200 ft-lbs at the hit of the throttle at 2500 rpm and well his torque curve is more like a plateau than a curve and I don't recall where we maxed out, maybe Dan will chime in with a dyno plot. Our results were still with a very conservative tune since we didn't want to risk blowing anything up prior to Nationals. Over the winter, we will see what it is capable of.

I would like to see that dyno chart actually. I know you guys are running the '99spec twins. When these blow that's the route I'm taking. From what I understand those turbo's spool slightly faster than the 95- twins and generally make about 10hp more at the same boost levels.

I'm not sequential and before the 9lbs is reached I'm @ 200 ft/lbs. When I do get the sequentials working I'd like to compare them to Dans. You guys are also running the 9.7 comp S5 n/a rotors correct?

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by dudemaaan

He will pick up quite a bit of power down low once he gets the sequential working. Plus depending on his porting and such it might be sacrificing some torque for power on top.

Yeah, the primaries are ported a little more than I would've liked them to be. I actually wanted to try these out with the RE on bone stock ports just cleaning up the runners/bowls and doing some port matching but that just didn't happen, I got too good a deal on the motor to pass it up. I would call it a med street port.

Originally Posted by David Jerome

"Every" is bold, but his shop seems to put out higher numbers than what is usual/typical, like rx7store used to back in the day. This is in no way meant to be a knock on anyone or these shops, just saying, some dynos read higher than others. I would be interested to see the results on a dyno dynamics dyno if possible, it will likely be a awd dyno but you can still dyno your car on it.

There is a shop about 20 minutes away that has a dyno dynamics dyno. I'll head there to get the other numbers and see where we lie. Why are you asking for a dyno dynamics and not a dyno jet? I would think for comparision we would want to see a similar dyno jet to see if it is that one in particular or just the really clean PA air.

Both the Dyno Dynamics and the DynoJet 424x are owned but the same family so the rates should be comparable, just curious as to your request is all.

[Brent]

Impressive numbers.

[sbrian2]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

You guys are also running the 9.7 comp S5 n/a rotors correct?

Correct.

[David Jerome]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

dyno. I'll head there to get the other numbers and see where we lie. Why are you asking for a dyno dynamics and not a dyno jet? I would think for comparision we would want to see a similar dyno jet to see if it is that one in particular or just the really clean PA air.

Both the Dyno Dynamics and the DynoJet 424x are owned but the same family so the rates should be comparable, just curious as to your request is all.

I have seen very little variance in the dyno dynamics numbers, they read consistenly lower than what else is out there. I know it will read much lower than the dynojet but I can do the math on the dyno dynamics and have a really close idea to what the number equates to on a dyno jet. If you have another dynojet just take it there for a true best case scenario. Its not a big deal either way, but 330rwhp on 9lbs is hard to swallow on the stockers, I dont know if anyone has made that on the BNRs even.

[dregg100]

also take into consideration that he is running an RE(correct?) and not and REW. which has significantly larger ports, and it is also ported. so he may be creating only 9psi of boost, but the engine has alot less resistance therefor flows more air. so that same 9 psi on his engine could be the same amount of air that a stock rew is using at 12psi...