FC3S Murray's never ending build.

[FC3S Murray]

No I did not modify any of the oil passages. Cleaned them out really well. Used halomar to seal the pump. The pump I used was actually in better shape, I didnt measure the specs but this pump had far less visual scars then the last oil pump. New pump actually has very little to no visual scaring.

I really hate pulling the front cover........

[project86]

i would see if you could go to o shittys ( orielys) and grab a cheap ass oil pressure gauge and see if it reads any different. id hate to see you lose another motEr sean.

[FC3S Murray]

No worries Kyle, I wont be rodding it if this pressure doesnt go up.

I called mazdatrix and brianstormed with them. I did only put the teflon ring with halomar on the front cover casting, this is what Mazdatrix's rebuild video called for if you have the S5 type o-ring casting. They instructed leave the o-ring out.

Mazdatrix and I both agree this oil pressure problem is not a o-ring issue due to still getting higher pressure up in the higher rpm range BUT instead be a PUMP issue.

This figures since I swapped out the other pump from that last shit-ass motor that DID get 30 psi constantly at idle........that is what I get for visually comparing scars, BUT dammit this one I have in my motor is almost perfect.. ic ouldnt even catch a finger nail on any of the slightly visible valleys!

I mean seriously..I get upwards of 35-38 psi at 1400 rpm and it sky rockets as I climb in rpm.

What is the highest oil pressure value you guys get above 4K with the FD regulator @ normal oil operating temps? I am going to see what my highest value is once the motor is warm later today.

[FC3S Murray]

OK I found my spec notes on all my internal parts. I thought I didn't spec out my oil pump BUT i did lol...it was all a blur last summer trying to squeeze in engine time in with the new house and family.

Anyway: Between lobe measurement was .003 , FSM says between .0012-.0047

Between body and outer rotor: .009 , FSM says .0079-.0098

So it is good, not perfect BUT good. I keep researching standard oil pressure and I keep coming across 15psi (RETed). The FSM only states standard oil pressure at 3K...no idle. WTF lol? I thought i found factory oil pressure in the fsm......hmmm?

I am not too worried since it now reads 17-18 psi @ 1K. I will watch it though.

[RETed]

Anything above 10psi is okay.
If it starts dropping under that, I'd worry.

Here's the problem...
Unless you have a pressure gauge that is "certified" for low psi in the 5...10...15psi range, your gauge is probably not that accurate that low.
As a rule, gauges are most accurate in the middle of their range...
So a 0 - 100psi pressure gauge is most accurate around 50psi.
Trying to get a 0 - 100psi pressure gauge to read accurate down to the 5 - 15psi range is just not reasonable.

Yes, your oil is diluted from all that rich running.
Your oil pressure is going to go up.
How much is it going up? I doubt it's going to be much...
I'd be surprised if it goes up from 10psi to 15psi.
It doesn't hurt, and changing oil isn't that much of a big deal.

Now, going from a 10W30 to 20W50 *is* going to be much more of a difference.
You're basically doubling the viscocity of the oil, and that's going to change your numbers significantly.

I think you're being a little paranoid about the oil pressure, but, on the flip side, I don't blame you.
I've been through an OPR failure and an o-ring failure, and I know what the symptoms look like - you're going to see a significant drop in *max* oil pressure at higher revs; idle oil pressure is practically "0".
Remember, the engine is under very little load at idle - 10psi doesn't sound like much, but it's enough to keep everything lubed and happy.
An engine revving under load at 3k+ RPM's is going to fail a lot faster when you cut the oil pressure in half versus at idle.
Now, I'm not talking about catastrophic oil pressure loss like...NO oil pressure, which is obvious the engine is going to kill itself in short time no matter under what conditions, but I hope you get the point of this long reply...


-Ted

[FC3S Murray]

Originally Posted by RETed

Anything above 10psi is okay.
If it starts dropping under that, I'd worry.

Here's the problem...
Unless you have a pressure gauge that is "certified" for low psi in the 5...10...15psi range, your gauge is probably not that accurate that low.
As a rule, gauges are most accurate in the middle of their range...
So a 0 - 100psi pressure gauge is most accurate around 50psi.
Trying to get a 0 - 100psi pressure gauge to read accurate down to the 5 - 15psi range is just not reasonable.

Yeah I am running prosport gauges...they are nice qaulity BUT I am pretty sure their low range is not as accurate as I would like and I doubt they are as accurate as a 150.00 Greddy gauge. Can't complian for a 50.00$ gauge though.

Yes, your oil is diluted from all that rich running.
Your oil pressure is going to go up.
How much is it going up? I doubt it's going to be much...
I'd be surprised if it goes up from 10psi to 15psi.
It doesn't hurt, and changing oil isn't that much of a big deal.

Now, going from a 10W30 to 20W50 *is* going to be much more of a difference.
You're basically doubling the viscocity of the oil, and that's going to change your numbers significantly.

That is what I hope for. My idle will never drop beyond 1050 rpm so I think the pressure will be there EVEN if I have a long period of WOT pulls and get that oil thinner

I think you're being a little paranoid about the oil pressure, but, on the flip side, I don't blame you.
I've been through an OPR failure and an o-ring failure, and I know what the symptoms look like - you're going to see a significant drop in *max* oil pressure at higher revs; idle oil pressure is practically "0".
Remember, the engine is under very little load at idle - 10psi doesn't sound like much, but it's enough to keep everything lubed and happy.
An engine revving under load at 3k+ RPM's is going to fail a lot faster when you cut the oil pressure in half versus at idle.
Now, I'm not talking about catastrophic oil pressure loss like...NO oil pressure, which is obvious the engine is going to kill itself in short time no matter under what conditions, but I hope you get the point of this long reply...


-Ted

Thanks man and I am glad you understand my parinoid reasoning. I am keeping in mind the "golden" rule of 10 psi for evry 1000rpm and I am DEFINITELY getting that!



Thanks for the encouraging post man.

[RETed]

Originally Posted by FC3S Murray

Yeah I am running prosport gauges...they are nice qaulity BUT I am pretty sure their low range is not as accurate as I would like and I doubt they are as accurate as a 150.00 Greddy gauge. Can't complian for a 50.00$ gauge though.

Even if the GReddy stuff costs more, don't expect better accuracy.
My rule about the gauge accuracy holds true for all gauges unless you can show me a certified accuracy certificate.
If you ever have experience with any scientific meters for biological / chemical experiments, you'd know what I mean.
With accuracy comes price; if you want truly accurate pressure gauge from 0 - 100psi, with, let's say + or - 1psi error range, I would expect it to cost closer to $1,000 when it's all said and done with.


-Ted

[project86]

hmmm very curious....it does seem that the op at idle isnt as pertinent as would be under wot or normal driving conditions. and not that i expected you to but im glad you dont assume anything when it comes to shit like that... as we all know .. ASSUMING=THE MOTHER OF ALL FUK UPS!

[FC3S Murray]

Well I just got back from a little drive:

at 165* F oil temp I get 79/80 psi at 3k rpm, 90 psi at 5500 rpm and 18 psi at 950 idle rpm

At 175/180*F oil temp I get 75 psi at 3K, 85-87 psi at 5500 rpm and 12-14 psi at 950 idle rpm

I bumped my idle to 1050 rpm and now she sits at 20 psi @ 180*F and 25 psi @ 160* F.

It still bothers me BUT at least my 3K test via the FSM is within spec and anything higher rpm is GREAT!

I do also wonder if this 10W-30 is a little broken down/fuel saturated from 560 miles of very rich AFR's and a shit load of sitting idle time on it(winter start ups). It still is somewhat viscous but i know our oil gets "fuely" over time.

As for my coilovers: they are doing great! I love the ride!!! I do have a slight clunk in the rear when the car gets tossed side to side from road bumps AND on sudden clutch release. My subframe looks mighty close to my diff and I wonder if these MMR adjusters clunk a little since the aluminum block doesnt fit in real snug in the trailer arm.

[project86]

i like long technical replies they make me lubed and happy... i mean happy..

[FC3S Murray]

Originally Posted by project86

i like long technical replies they make me lubed and happy... i mean happy..

.......you must have been lubing yourself up last night? No other reason for you to be up that late last night texting lol

[project86]

Originally Posted by FC3S Murray

.......you must have been lubing yourself up last night? No other reason for you to be up that late last night texting lol

ha! i get off work late. and i was steering wheel shoping!

[Max777]

Max approved!

[chibikougan]

Ordered my Mallory and pressure regulator. Got 2 weeks to get her going for Test and Tune..

[FC3S Murray]

better get on it bro lol.