Loose Exhaust Sleeve

Zenki7 · 04-06-2009, 01:36 PM

I pulled the manifold and noticed the Rear Housing had a loose exhaust sleeve. Moves approx 1/8 of an inch... it is def noticable that it moves....

this motor was just rebuilt approx 5k miles ago....
Its a little built up too...
1000 cc secondary injectors...

I just took delivery of this motor yesterday...
and want to know if I should back out now...

It has prewired Rtek ecu flash, AFC, Innovative Wideband Came with a Tubular Manifold..

Let me know what you guys think..

Max777 · 04-06-2009, 04:34 PM

What? Who built it? The sleeves should be nice and tight, (dowled to the housings) so if this is a fresh motor, I would send it back, but then again, you might be able to get away with being able to sandwich it in there between the manifold, gasket and block. I dont understand how this happened to the sleeve.

Someone with more knowledge needs to chime in. My friend's FC, both sleeves were loose, we just left them out.

Whizbang · 04-06-2009, 05:05 PM

i have the hardest time ever to get them loose, not sure how that occurred. Unless maybe the dowels are loose.

Zenki7 · 04-06-2009, 06:42 PM

Heres a Video with sound of what Im talking about

http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i2...t=MOV06052.flv

Max777 · 04-06-2009, 07:20 PM

Oh, that's WAY better than my friends, you could pull his engine's sleeves out with your bare hands, lol. Cant really give any more info than that through.

Zenki7 · 04-06-2009, 08:01 PM

Do you think i could weld it and sand it smooth just to make sure it holds???

FC Zach · 04-07-2009, 03:21 AM

No, you wont be able to weld it in place. I'm with Max777 on the idea that once the exhaust manifold is bolted on and tight, the manifold and gasket seated on the sleeve should be adequate enough to hold it snugly. Someone correct me if I'm wrong in thinking this but I think the sleeve does sit flush against the manifold.

drifting in drifting · 04-08-2009, 06:43 AM

Ok i just went through this too but mine fell out wasnt pinned in at all .As for holding them in by sandwiching them in didnt work the sleeve bounced around enough that it chewed up the housing alittle this was done by po. So i drilled the sleeve where the pins where and got longer pins and pounded then into the sleeves and housing them welded the pin to the sleeve as per advise from Dave of KDR .Plus i have a tube manni too and when i tried to do the sandwich deal the only thing the really held the sleeve was the gasket it self not the flange

Max777 · 04-08-2009, 05:57 PM

Thank you /\, that is knowledgeable info right there! Now we know how to fix the issue!

Zenki7 · 04-11-2009, 10:51 AM

The motor was rebuilt with new seals etc 5k miles ago and I found out at that point these were not loose and were not an issue. So I would really like to avoid taking it apart and replacing the housings ya know? so Im gonna try this method of replacing the pin and seeing what happens.

And yes I would figure it would bounce around and probably more you figure thats where all the exhaust comes out and how much pressure and air comes through there!

I will keep you guys posted.

If anyone else has any other advice PLEASE tell me!

Thank you!

C. Ludwig · 04-11-2009, 11:25 AM

The manifold and gasket will not hold it in place. The gasket actually seals around the outside of the insert so there is nothing that's going to hold the insert, even after the manifold is tightened.

Drilling the insert is a great idea except that you need to get the whole thing out to do that. Without breaking down the engine it's going to be hard to get the sleeve out.

Had a customer bring me an engine with the exact same thing you have. For a quick fix I built up some weld on the manifold flange and filed it down until I got a snug fit against the sleeve to hold it in place and that worked well. His was bad enough you could hear it rattle around when the engine was idling.

Max777 · 04-11-2009, 06:39 PM

/\, what if they just fall right out like my friends car? His were not even dowled i think. (the PO rebuilt the engine, and it looks like he removed the sleeves, cut out the N/A diffusers, welded in sheet metal, and just popped them back in.

how bad is it to run the car w/o the sleeves even in there? The custom header that this car has, has pipes that are big enough to cover the larger hole btw)

C. Ludwig · 04-12-2009, 04:47 PM

If they just fall out I would do as has been suggested and drill through them and pin and weld them from the inside. Not a good idea IMO to run without the sleeve.

drifting in drifting · 04-12-2009, 06:48 PM

Agreed youll never be able to control your coolant temps with them out unless your strickly drag

Max777 · 04-12-2009, 10:55 PM

hmm, so they affect cooling that much? I guess then we are gonna have to pull the exhaust off again, and put them back in... fawk, I wish I knew this sooner, while the engine was still out of his car.

04-06-2009, 01:36 PM	#1
Zenki7 Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 56 Rep Power: 17	Loose Exhaust Sleeve I pulled the manifold and noticed the Rear Housing had a loose exhaust sleeve. Moves approx 1/8 of an inch... it is def noticable that it moves.... this motor was just rebuilt approx 5k miles ago.... Its a little built up too... 1000 cc secondary injectors... I just took delivery of this motor yesterday... and want to know if I should back out now... It has prewired Rtek ecu flash, AFC, Innovative Wideband Came with a Tubular Manifold.. Let me know what you guys think..

04-06-2009, 04:34 PM	#2
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL iTrader: (5) Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 18	What? Who built it? The sleeves should be nice and tight, (dowled to the housings) so if this is a fresh motor, I would send it back, but then again, you might be able to get away with being able to sandwich it in there between the manifold, gasket and block. I dont understand how this happened to the sleeve. Someone with more knowledge needs to chime in. My friend's FC, both sleeves were loose, we just left them out. __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!

04-06-2009, 05:05 PM	#3
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	i have the hardest time ever to get them loose, not sure how that occurred. Unless maybe the dowels are loose. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

04-06-2009, 07:20 PM	#5
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL iTrader: (5) Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 18	Oh, that's WAY better than my friends, you could pull his engine's sleeves out with your bare hands, lol. Cant really give any more info than that through. __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!

04-07-2009, 03:21 AM	#7
FC Zach RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eagleville, TN iTrader: (2) Posts: 2,267 Rep Power: 19	No, you wont be able to weld it in place. I'm with Max777 on the idea that once the exhaust manifold is bolted on and tight, the manifold and gasket seated on the sleeve should be adequate enough to hold it snugly. Someone correct me if I'm wrong in thinking this but I think the sleeve does sit flush against the manifold. __________________ 1993 Yamaha GTS1000 1992 Celica Turbo AllTrac 1987 RX7 Sport 1979 Yamaha G1, KM24 powered 1975 Dolmar KMS4

04-06-2009, 06:42 PM	#4
Zenki7 Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 56 Rep Power: 17	Heres a Video with sound of what Im talking about http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i2...t=MOV06052.flv

04-06-2009, 08:01 PM	#6
Zenki7 Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 56 Rep Power: 17	Do you think i could weld it and sand it smooth just to make sure it holds???

04-08-2009, 06:43 AM	#8
drifting in drifting The Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 iTrader: (0) Posts: 22 Rep Power: 0	Ok i just went through this too but mine fell out wasnt pinned in at all .As for holding them in by sandwiching them in didnt work the sleeve bounced around enough that it chewed up the housing alittle this was done by po. So i drilled the sleeve where the pins where and got longer pins and pounded then into the sleeves and housing them welded the pin to the sleeve as per advise from Dave of KDR .Plus i have a tube manni too and when i tried to do the sandwich deal the only thing the really held the sleeve was the gasket it self not the flange

04-08-2009, 05:57 PM	#9
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL iTrader: (5) Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 18	Thank you /\, that is knowledgeable info right there! Now we know how to fix the issue! __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!

04-11-2009, 10:51 AM	#10
Zenki7 Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 56 Rep Power: 17	The motor was rebuilt with new seals etc 5k miles ago and I found out at that point these were not loose and were not an issue. So I would really like to avoid taking it apart and replacing the housings ya know? so Im gonna try this method of replacing the pin and seeing what happens. And yes I would figure it would bounce around and probably more you figure thats where all the exhaust comes out and how much pressure and air comes through there! I will keep you guys posted. If anyone else has any other advice PLEASE tell me! Thank you!

04-11-2009, 11:25 AM	#11
C. Ludwig Rotary Masochist Join Date: May 2008 Location: Floyds Knobs, IN iTrader: (5) Posts: 494 Rep Power: 17	The manifold and gasket will not hold it in place. The gasket actually seals around the outside of the insert so there is nothing that's going to hold the insert, even after the manifold is tightened. Drilling the insert is a great idea except that you need to get the whole thing out to do that. Without breaking down the engine it's going to be hard to get the sleeve out. Had a customer bring me an engine with the exact same thing you have. For a quick fix I built up some weld on the manifold flange and filed it down until I got a snug fit against the sleeve to hold it in place and that worked well. His was bad enough you could hear it rattle around when the engine was idling. __________________ _______________________________________________ *One stop Haltech, AEM, Syvecs shopping. Installation and tuning.* http://www.lms-efi.com *Free support. Drop us an email.* chris@lms-efi.com 502-515-7482 Facebook @LMS-EFI

04-11-2009, 06:39 PM	#12
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL iTrader: (5) Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 18	/\, what if they just fall right out like my friends car? His were not even dowled i think. (the PO rebuilt the engine, and it looks like he removed the sleeves, cut out the N/A diffusers, welded in sheet metal, and just popped them back in. how bad is it to run the car w/o the sleeves even in there? The custom header that this car has, has pipes that are big enough to cover the larger hole btw) __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!

04-12-2009, 04:47 PM	#13
C. Ludwig Rotary Masochist Join Date: May 2008 Location: Floyds Knobs, IN iTrader: (5) Posts: 494 Rep Power: 17	If they just fall out I would do as has been suggested and drill through them and pin and weld them from the inside. Not a good idea IMO to run without the sleeve. __________________ _______________________________________________ *One stop Haltech, AEM, Syvecs shopping. Installation and tuning.* http://www.lms-efi.com *Free support. Drop us an email.* chris@lms-efi.com 502-515-7482 Facebook @LMS-EFI

04-12-2009, 06:48 PM	#14
drifting in drifting The Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 iTrader: (0) Posts: 22 Rep Power: 0	Agreed youll never be able to control your coolant temps with them out unless your strickly drag

04-12-2009, 10:55 PM	#15
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL iTrader: (5) Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 18	hmm, so they affect cooling that much? I guess then we are gonna have to pull the exhaust off again, and put them back in... fawk, I wish I knew this sooner, while the engine was still out of his car. __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!