flooding out FC3S4 N/A - Page 2

vex · 02-13-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow24v

ok, ill see what happens with the new injectors. ive had experience with gunked injectors on my Duster, so i know how much of a PITA a stuck open injector is.

Atkins had a rotor kit or something like that which was apex, side seals and some other parts. is there another supplier for rebuild parts other than atkins?

There are, but their prices are more expensive from the ones i've been able to see. Not sure though. Check their vendor section for a deal they're doing with re-build kits. It's not a bad deal all things considering.

Flooder · 02-13-2009, 06:07 PM

Well like its been said already, the causes for a flooded motor are leaky injectors and or low compression. Just because you got injectors from a running car doesn't mean that they wont leak either.

Shadow24v · 04-01-2009, 11:44 AM

well, i sent out the final payment on the FC. Ill be picking it up in 2.5 weeks!

Still havent figured out the flooding though. Secondary injectors got switched but it still doesn't quite catch. Once i get it in my posession, ill swap the primaries and see if thats the issue.

Would a bad FPR cause a flood on start?

Whizbang · 04-01-2009, 11:51 AM

technically yes. Only reason i can confirm this is mine on a car i used to have some how went bad and it would not relieve fuel pressure to the return so the pressure was quite high.

Shadow24v · 04-01-2009, 11:55 AM

I thought so. ill keep that in mind if swapping the primaries doesn't fix it.

(ironically i think i have a FPR issue on my DD too lol)

Max777 · 04-10-2009, 11:02 AM

/\ Good point, and besides, it's not like most people are going to end up driving their cars for another 100K in the first place... at least, people with nicer cars that dont drive them every day.

12arotary · 04-10-2009, 12:24 PM

i'm just curious why your making payments on a non running car? hopefully you didn't just pay 12k for it

Shadow24v · 04-10-2009, 12:31 PM

college intern + making crap + bills = payments on a $300 car

Vex, you make good points on the rebuild thing. same thing goes for piston engines. why buy a whole kit w/ pistons, rings etc etc when all you might need is a couple gaskets and bearings?

12arotary · 04-10-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow24v

college intern + making crap + bills = payments on a $300 car

Vex, you make good points on the rebuild thing. same thing goes for piston engines. why buy a whole kit w/ pistons, rings etc etc when all you might need is a couple gaskets and bearings?

Or you could make the point-
Do it once do it right-
Why use old stuff even if its perfect id rather rebuild once and replace everything than fix what is bad at this time-

vex · 04-10-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12arotary

Why use old stuff even if its perfect id rather rebuild once and replace everything than fix what is bad at this time-

If the parts are in spec, they're going to be equivalent to if not the exact same as what you replace them with. There's reasons why the FSM states "if out of spec, replace". There's no point except bragging rights and maybe a false sense of security with just swapping in with a master kit all the parts that are still in spec. You run the same exact chances of failure with new parts that are spec'd that you do with old parts that are spec'd. Now, if we were talking about re-using soft seals, then yes. Replacing soft seals are mandatory for correct function.

DJMOJO · 04-10-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12arotary

Or you could make the point-
Do it once do it right-
Why use old stuff even if its perfect id rather rebuild once and replace everything than fix what is bad at this time-

thats the point i was trying to make ill take the false sense of security anyday

vex · 04-10-2009, 10:38 PM

Let me put it this way: You have a used journal bearing that shows no sign of wear. You spec it and it shows the perfect conditions for the bearing to have.

Compare it to a new journal bearing you have that shows no sign of wear. You spec it and it shows the perfect conditions for the bearing to have.

What's the difference?

DJMOJO · 04-11-2009, 10:16 AM

id still toss the old one. i guess you dont get my point eather, i get what your saying, and on say, a pulley bearing i totaly get and understand your point. its something that is easily accesable, and if they pulley is still up to spec and has no signs of wear then why replace it. if im tearing down an engine for a rebuild id much rather use a master rebuild kit and not have to worry about specing every single piece. just replace it and get it over with.

vex · 04-11-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJMOJO

id still toss the old one. i guess you dont get my point eather, i get what your saying, and on say, a pulley bearing i totaly get and understand your point. its something that is easily accesable, and if they pulley is still up to spec and has no signs of wear then why replace it. if im tearing down an engine for a rebuild id much rather use a master rebuild kit and not have to worry about specing every single piece. just replace it and get it over with.

Even with new parts you should still be specing them prior to install. At no point in the rebuild process should you not be specing any part in a high tolerance location (all bearings and seals). So again, beyond a false sense of security, extra work, extra money, there is no benefit (can those really be called a benefit?) to replacing an in-spec part for a new in-spec part. If an old in-spec part does eventually fail in the engine, it's not going to be because the part was old/tired and broke from fatigue, it will occur--more likely from an out of spec, improperly installed, or catastrophic failure from a pre-ignition event. All of which would cause the same exact failure of a new part in the same way.

Now that being said, some parts are better off being replaced even if they're still in spec: Apex seals, if they're of the old 3 piece kind, can easily be upgraded to the newer 2 piece without much issue or head ache. In spec 2 piece so long as you remember which rotor they came from and which apex they came from on that rotor can easily be used for the rebuild if there's enough life in them. If however the apex seals are getting closer to the wear limit (6.5mm~7mm) One should think about replacing them with new because failure of those seals will occur sooner than a new (8mm) apex seal (for further clarification look at the ash content of oils thread in the general tech section). Apex seals are wear parts.

When it comes to bearings however there is absolutely no benefit to replacing the old with the new, unless of course you're stepping up to a 3 window, or race bearing. This is because there is supposed to be no actual contact between the eccentric shaft and the bearing, as well as the rotor bearing should make no actual contact with the eccentric shaft. The journal bearings use the principle of shear to keep wear from occurring, and as such the oil will play a much bigger role in the life of those parts than the actual time in the engine of the part.

So, if I still don't get it. Please explain it to me where the benefit comes from replacing old-in-spec parts with new-in-spec parts?

Shadow24v · 04-20-2009, 08:30 AM

Well, i towed my "new" rx-7 home this weekend. 1400mi round trip in 36 hours. Wend down with a 2.3L 4-cyl 2wd manual ranger and a tow dolly to south carolina to pick it up. Loaded the car onto the dolly backwards (drive wheels off the ground) and trundled slowly back. Couldn't go above 55-60 as i had trailer-whip when i hit 65+.

The car is the one that was for sale HERE and there are a couple pics as well.

As far as i can tell, it is in good shape. a SC car all its life i believe, virtually no rust that i saw. Its actually a 87 according to the title with 170K or so miles.

There are some small issues with it (aside from not starting/running)
1) shifter has vertical play, i think the retaining plate is wore out or broken
2) right side mirror housing is broken
3) a triangle-ish vent cover on the right of the dash is MIA (grey interior)
4) e-brake handle casing is cracked and separating
5) minor dings, scratches, loose or cracked interior pieces
6) one of the rear glass latches isn't latching
7) driver's door doesn't lock
8) clutch pedal likes to stick down at the floor (stuck PP maybe?)

As for the motor, Im planning on getting a battery and seeing what it does when i try and start it. I'll probably pump out the tank and replace the fuel filter as well as an oil change and possibly a coolant change.

I still have to change the primary injectors and see if that helps with the flooding/starting issue. I'll post up more later this week when i get a battery and a chance to fiddle with it.

It needs a little TLC but it will definitely get that now

BTW, is there supposed to be an RX-7 badge on teh rear? all i have is a "Mazda" one.

And if anyone has an s4 or s5 parting out i'll be interested in parts/pieces to get this back into decent shape

02-13-2009, 06:07 PM	#2
Flooder Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 321 Rep Power: 18	Well like its been said already, the causes for a flooded motor are leaky injectors and or low compression. Just because you got injectors from a running car doesn't mean that they wont leak either. __________________ AZRX7.COM Red 1991 A-package(SOLD) Red 1990 GXL(SOLD) White 1989 GTUs(DEAD) Red 1988 Turbo II(DD) Black 1988 Turbo II(SOLD) Rebuilt and street ported motor, Garrett T04E Turbo, 3" Turbo Inlet Duct/AEM Dry Flow Filter, Your Mom's MBC, Blitz FMIC, 890cc and 1000cc injectors, Tomei FPR, Walbro, Rtek 2.1 ECU, Taurus E-Fan, Turbonetics BOV, 3" Motoria/Corksport Turbo Back Exhaust, Emissions Removed, Greddy Boost Gauge, Megan Racing Water Temp Gauge, 5one5 Triple Gauge Pod, AEM Uego, GP Sports Body Kit, Fiber Images CF Hood, S5 Seats, S5 Tails, S5 Alt, Dual Alt Pulley, D2 Coilovers, NRG Quick Release, Shook Motorsports Radiator, HID's, AN/Steel Braided Oil Cooler Lines, SUPER JDM TYTE DRIFT BUTTON www.DensetsuMotorsports.com www.AZRX7.Com www.FloodersAdventure.com

04-01-2009, 11:51 AM	#4
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 21	technically yes. Only reason i can confirm this is mine on a car i used to have some how went bad and it would not relieve fuel pressure to the return so the pressure was quite high. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

04-10-2009, 11:02 AM	#6
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 19	/\ Good point, and besides, it's not like most people are going to end up driving their cars for another 100K in the first place... at least, people with nicer cars that dont drive them every day. __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!

04-10-2009, 12:24 PM	#7
12arotary tumor-syphilis-itis-osis Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 191 Rep Power: 17	i'm just curious why your making payments on a non running car? hopefully you didn't just pay 12k for it __________________ 82 300d 82 Gsl 84 b2200 Diesel 88 gxl

04-10-2009, 10:38 PM	#12
vex RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Influx. Posts: 2,113 Rep Power: 20	Let me put it this way: You have a used journal bearing that shows no sign of wear. You spec it and it shows the perfect conditions for the bearing to have. Compare it to a new journal bearing you have that shows no sign of wear. You spec it and it shows the perfect conditions for the bearing to have. What's the difference? __________________ The Official FC Radiator Thread My Project Thread: Cerberus CCVT Virginia Rotary Group

04-01-2009, 11:44 AM	#3
Shadow24v Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 69 Rep Power: 17	well, i sent out the final payment on the FC. Ill be picking it up in 2.5 weeks! Still havent figured out the flooding though. Secondary injectors got switched but it still doesn't quite catch. Once i get it in my posession, ill swap the primaries and see if thats the issue. Would a bad FPR cause a flood on start?

04-01-2009, 11:55 AM	#5
Shadow24v Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 69 Rep Power: 17	I thought so. ill keep that in mind if swapping the primaries doesn't fix it. (ironically i think i have a FPR issue on my DD too lol)

04-10-2009, 12:31 PM	#8
Shadow24v Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 69 Rep Power: 17	college intern + making crap + bills = payments on a $300 car Vex, you make good points on the rebuild thing. same thing goes for piston engines. why buy a whole kit w/ pistons, rings etc etc when all you might need is a couple gaskets and bearings?

04-11-2009, 10:16 AM	#13
DJMOJO The only DJ in RCC Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 20 Rep Power: 0	id still toss the old one. i guess you dont get my point eather, i get what your saying, and on say, a pulley bearing i totaly get and understand your point. its something that is easily accesable, and if they pulley is still up to spec and has no signs of wear then why replace it. if im tearing down an engine for a rebuild id much rather use a master rebuild kit and not have to worry about specing every single piece. just replace it and get it over with. __________________

04-20-2009, 08:30 AM	#15
Shadow24v Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 69 Rep Power: 17	Well, i towed my "new" rx-7 home this weekend. 1400mi round trip in 36 hours. Wend down with a 2.3L 4-cyl 2wd manual ranger and a tow dolly to south carolina to pick it up. Loaded the car onto the dolly backwards (drive wheels off the ground) and trundled slowly back. Couldn't go above 55-60 as i had trailer-whip when i hit 65+. The car is the one that was for sale HERE and there are a couple pics as well. As far as i can tell, it is in good shape. a SC car all its life i believe, virtually no rust that i saw. Its actually a 87 according to the title with 170K or so miles. There are some small issues with it (aside from not starting/running) 1) shifter has vertical play, i think the retaining plate is wore out or broken 2) right side mirror housing is broken 3) a triangle-ish vent cover on the right of the dash is MIA (grey interior) 4) e-brake handle casing is cracked and separating 5) minor dings, scratches, loose or cracked interior pieces 6) one of the rear glass latches isn't latching 7) driver's door doesn't lock 8) clutch pedal likes to stick down at the floor (stuck PP maybe?) As for the motor, Im planning on getting a battery and seeing what it does when i try and start it. I'll probably pump out the tank and replace the fuel filter as well as an oil change and possibly a coolant change. I still have to change the primary injectors and see if that helps with the flooding/starting issue. I'll post up more later this week when i get a battery and a chance to fiddle with it. It needs a little TLC but it will definitely get that now BTW, is there supposed to be an RX-7 badge on teh rear? all i have is a "Mazda" one. And if anyone has an s4 or s5 parting out i'll be interested in parts/pieces to get this back into decent shape