Turbo, RTV, Block off plates, and advice...

[vex]

So I'm having trouble with my car just a month or so before I plan on putting on all the stuff for the turbo. My car now on occasion feels like there's a massive vacuum leak. The trouble is it's intermittent. I recently replaced my EGR valve with a blockoff plate and while I was attempting to remove the gasket from the EGR valve it disintegrated. I used RTV on it and made a pretty good seal. I took it out for a test drive and I noticed that after it warmed up it started behaving like it there was an air leak. I then took it all apart and re-applied RTV more liberally and that seemed to correct my issue.

I then had to park the car for two weeks for a trip out of state. I came back and I started to have these problems again. The temperature has been getting extremely low (down to the single digits) and that's when the problems seem to have started.

I'm curious as to whether or not the RTV is unable to seal properly like it used to and so I should order an EGR valve gasket and re-do it, or if my engine is on the fritz and is in need of a rebuild? I'm going to do a compression test on it tomorrow to see what the numbers are. The last time I did one however my numbers were excellent 115/115 and hit 30/30/30 on each face and that was maybe, MAYBE 8 months ago.

Now more to the point since I am planning on putting the turbo on within the next few months should I rebuild the engine anyways? Just build and port it when I put the turbo on while I prep the engine bay? How much do soft seal rebuild kits go for (as I think that my apex seals are fine)?

[classicauto]

The RTV should seal fine if its applied properly and the surfaces aren't warped.

Hard to say what that issue is...

As far as rebuilding before strapping the turbo on - ABSOLUTELY. And unless your engine has been rebuilt fairly recently, you'll probably need more items then a soft seal kit as there will likely be 3 piece apex seals in it. Make sure to spec out all the hard parts....but a coolant o-ring, plus all dowel oring kits from mazdatrix are only a couple hundred dollars. But oil control rings/seals, all springs etc should be measured and replaced if necessary. But in my experience, unless its been fairly recently built or freshened - you'll be in for more then you think.

[vex]

Originally Posted by classicauto

The RTV should seal fine if its applied properly and the surfaces aren't warped.

Hmmm... The RTV was working fine up until the time I left for my trip. It was running a little less than well when I came back, all it did was sit and the temperature changed.

Hard to say what that issue is...

As far as rebuilding before strapping the turbo on - ABSOLUTELY. And unless your engine has been rebuilt fairly recently, you'll probably need more items then a soft seal kit as there will likely be 3 piece apex seals in it. Make sure to spec out all the hard parts....but a coolant o-ring, plus all dowel oring kits from mazdatrix are only a couple hundred dollars. But oil control rings/seals, all springs etc should be measured and replaced if necessary. But in my experience, unless its been fairly recently built or freshened - you'll be in for more then you think.

The engine was rebuilt about 55,000 miles ago (about half of that from my driving). It's still pretty recent all things considered and it's previous numbers reflect that. I'm going to be driving it back to my parking lot today and will be able to run some more tests. I'm just putting off doing it because it's balls cold outside

[vex]

It's having trouble turning on now. It's too cold so I can't really get my plugs out so I can't do a compression test or see the condition of the plugs. It's tending to flood more than not, and runs strong more than not when it actually does manage to turn on. There are instances when it does not run strong and is in need of some fancy driving to keep it from stalling out, but more so than not it runs fine.

What is the problem? Is it the plugs themselves? The temperature? A combination of old plugs, temperature, and flooding? Could my previous symptoms be another aspect of this problem or is it an indication of another problem that I'll need to fix?

Guesses?

[WE3RX7]

Maybe you should adjust the RTek. Temps have been drastically colder in VA the last few weeks.

Also, put new plugs in. I cant stress the value of spark plugs in a rotary, lol...

[vex]

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

Maybe you should adjust the RTek. Temps have been drastically colder in VA the last few weeks.

I would if I could, but the NA S4 RTek 2.1 does not allow adjustment of the cranking map. Beyond that it won't read the fuel map until it's idling, which it can't really do until it's started up.

Also, put new plugs in. I cant stress the value of spark plugs in a rotary, lol...

I'll do that when I put the car in the garage to do the turbo install (either next week or the week after). It's rather annoying right now (and cold for that matter) as I was driving after filling up I came to a complete stop and the car just stalled out, the total running time of the car could not have been more than 7 minutes. I try to restart it and it just won't start, definitely behaves like it's flooded. I plan on doing a compression check when I put it in the garage so I can know if it's in need of a soft seal or more extravagant rebuild.

The plugs themselves are probably approaching 25-30,000 miles on them, which would be about the time for a replacement or at least a very thorough cleaning. Hmmm.... I may even be able to run a compression check when I get up to culpeper. That should be quite revealing.

[WE3RX7]

You doing the turbo install in culpeper? Which weekend....


As for plugs, if you did any tuning on those plugs when you got the RTek, they'll probably need cleaning/replaced... i remember tuning a T2 a while back and after hours of work, it never wanted to start... put new plugs in, and it fired right up. Its usually simple.


I would def do the compression check too though. Even if its been rebuilt, who knows the quality of the rebuild....

[vex]

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

You doing the turbo install in culpeper? Which weekend....

Nah, I'm going to be doing the turbo install down in Christiansburg as I'd have access to a lift, tools, and a slew of master welders (or at least certified or self taught welders that have a tig).

As for plugs, if you did any tuning on those plugs when you got the RTek, they'll probably need cleaning/replaced... i remember tuning a T2 a while back and after hours of work, it never wanted to start... put new plugs in, and it fired right up. Its usually simple.

I haven't really done much tuning on the car so far. I've dropped the fuel correction down to I *think* -16% or so during the idle range. I've also blocked off the EGR, so I imagine that's the biggest thing going against me right now with the cold air.

I would def do the compression check too though. Even if its been rebuilt, who knows the quality of the rebuild....

Point taken. I really don't know much about the rebuild. I just have a receipt for it and I know that they didn't have any 6PI sleeves in it so I had to put those in. Who knows how they rebuilt it.

[vex]

I'll be doing a compression check tomorrow and looking at the plugs.

On the way up it ran like complete crap (RTek registered lean, though I was definatly spewing fuel in the exhaust pipe and doing back fires and flames). Will look at the condition of the plugs and report back come morning. Hopefully it won't be so F'ing cold this time.

[vex]

Okay, so I checked compression on both rotors. I'm getting around 50-60psi on each face and a total compression of 100+psi (using piston compression tester) both front and rear.

I pulled the plugs and they're a little fouled. One of the leading plugs isn't looking too good as the piece in the middle has been warn away compared to the other one (not as pointy). When I pulled them however I noticed the first had alot of oil and and seemed well lubricated (front). When I pulled the second (rear) I noticed it had alot of oil and fuel mixture in it. I don't know why it's flooding on the rear when compression is so high.

Any thoughts on why a very good compression engine is flooding out?

(As a side note, I'm only able to secure trailing plugs right now. Would putting those in the leading position affect anything?)

[vex]

So I got a full set of plugs (at least I ordered a full set; both leading and trailing). Ended up only getting 4 leading. No biggie. I look at the gapping for the new plugs and I realise why my engine's been running so crappy lately. My spark plugs are definatly shot more than a dead zombie corpse on a marine base.

The elctrodes on the old plugs have been melted/warn away to almost just little blobs/spikes. Couple that with the amount of carbon on them and I think I know why the plugs only worked the way they did. I'm very surprised by how well the car ran. I'll replace the plugs tomorrow to see if that remedy's my problem.

On a side note will running a full set of Leading plugs pose much of a problem? I'm planning on putting the car in the garage and putting on a turbo in the next week (it'll be down for a month or so). I'm of the thought that it won't be a problem since the plugs themselves are a cooler plug and will take to the additional air and heat without much of a problem.

[djmtsu]

I run leading plugs all around. I have ever since I did the turbo swap with no emissions.

No ill effects. It actually runs a whole lot better that way.

[vex]

Originally Posted by djmtsu

I run leading plugs all around. I have ever since I did the turbo swap with no emissions.

No ill effects. It actually runs a whole lot better that way.

Alright so I swapped in the new plugs. It seems to idle much better now, but while I was letting it idle I tried to blip the throttle (it was idling fine just prior to this) and it ended up dying on me. I couldn't get it to restart, it seemed quite lathargic when attempting to turn over.

I won't know too much more about the current state of affairs until after I start driving it around more. At least I feel like it'll be able to get me to the garage without problem.

[classicauto]

Originally Posted by vex

On a side note will running a full set of Leading plugs pose much of a problem? I'm planning on putting the car in the garage and putting on a turbo in the next week (it'll be down for a month or so). I'm of the thought that it won't be a problem since the plugs themselves are a cooler plug and will take to the additional air and heat without much of a problem.

The leading plugs are hotter. 7 heat range in the leading vs. 9 in the trailing

I've run all 7's in some of my N/A DD's before.....never been a problem.

Originally Posted by djmtsu

I run leading plugs all around. I have ever since I did the turbo swap with no emissions.

No ill effects. It actually runs a whole lot better that way.

Are you running all leadings? or all trailings? Never tried all 7's in a boosted (even stock boosted) 13B before....interesting.

[vex]

Thanks for the clarification about the plugs.

I'm still having trouble with the engine dying after a little while. I'm going to try to hunt down a vac leak (if there is one) and see if that solves my problem. If that doesn't work I'll just tear into the intake again and remove the EGR Block off plate and clean up the mounting one last time and install it. I may go out and purchase a gasket maker compound or something instead of the RTV red.