Re-conditioning side plates ( resurfacing and re hardening) - Page 2

***Herblenny*** · 05-28-2009, 11:10 AM

Chip,

I was told you should lap after nitrating not lap and nitrate... Can you clearify that for me??

Also, I've heard that the process of nitrile is not completely flat... Hence Rick Engman laps every new irons when he builds race engines. Just wanted to know your thoughts.. I do understand that it does make the surface to wear less.

To_Slow · 05-28-2009, 11:41 AM

On used plates you need to lap first to get the step wear down flat, on new plates they do a good job from the factory making them flat and true( never checked but will from now on). Re-nitrate to a low heat to have it harden down about 3-4 thou deep after lapping. That low heat 99% will not warp the plate and no need for a touch up on re lapping after nitrating. All the plate are dial cheeked for warpage and if necessary the will be re lapped very lightly.5 thou at most... But never had a warped plate yet coming out of the nitrating process...

But at the same time i will start checking the new plate from Mazda for warpage.. you never know...

At the same time everybody has there own take on lapping or lapping with nitrating. But i can guaranty you that lapping a used plate 2-3 thou deep and checking the hardness with a dial indicator. it a much softer material with out the nitrating. Thus making sense that wear will occur more rapidly in a plate with out nitrating than with...

Hope that helps...

TehMonkay · 05-28-2009, 12:55 PM

Hot damn this sounds like a good deal

NoDOHC · 09-29-2009, 07:15 PM

Wow! That is a significant change.

I may have a set for you to resurface in a few months when I tear the engine in my car down to install the new 9.5:1 rotors. I didn't know about this and lapped the irons myself (although I didn't remove any 0.002-0.003", more like 0.0005"). I am sure they will need it again by then if the hardness is that much different(with 10,000 miles on the clock). I should have known that there was some reason that everyone didn't just do the lapping themselves....

I will let you know if they show appreciable wear (I don't want this engine to fail anytime soon).

To_Slow · 12-09-2009, 05:08 PM

Still Running that 420.00$$ per 13b special for RCC members.....

mazdadude7 · 12-10-2009, 01:29 AM

Thats a good deal!

91GSL-SE · 01-07-2010, 02:34 AM

Hi could you tell me what the RMS (Surface finish)is after the final lapping?
Thanks.

To_Slow · 01-07-2010, 09:20 AM

Just finished up a set of plates for a customer 3 rotor...

Enjoy

The cost for me to have these done went up, so i'm pasing the savings on.

480.00 for a 13b
640.00 for a 20b

91GSL-SE · 01-08-2010, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RW-7

Hi could you tell me what the RMS (Surface finish)is after the final lapping?
Thanks.

..

To_Slow · 01-08-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rw-7

..

61 rms

To_Slow · 01-08-2010, 09:26 AM

61 rms

C. Ludwig · 01-08-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by To_Slow

61 rms

Sure about that number? We had some plates ground a while back and took some measurements of re-ground used and brand new OE plates. We found a new set of OE plate to be about 12 Ra (micro-inches) on average. Our guy got the used plates to an average of 8 Ra.

The rough correlation between the RMS and Ra is around 11%. So our measurements for the stock plate would roughly be 13 RMS.

They look to good to be as bad as your measurement would suggest.

To_Slow · 01-11-2010, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. Ludwig

Sure about that number? We had some plates ground a while back and took some measurements of re-ground used and brand new OE plates. We found a new set of OE plate to be about 12 Ra (micro-inches) on average. Our guy got the used plates to an average of 8 Ra.

The rough correlation between the RMS and Ra is around 11%. So our measurements for the stock plate would roughly be 13 RMS.

They look to good to be as bad as your measurement would suggest.

Just got in to work, re-cheeked the plates, got a RMS of 12. I asked the night shift guy to do it for me, he checked the back side of the rear plate ...

O well....

To_Slow · 01-08-2010, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection

So if those 20b irons are used and lapped, then why are all the fasteners and fittings perfectly shiny like they are brand new? Those fasteners are not ones that would normally fail or be replaced. Especially the rear iron coolant hose pipe/fitting.

However, I also know that most or all of the 20b irons are NLA new...so I am not sure what to make of that.

It has nothing to do with them failing bolts/fittings.. They get blasted and re zinc plated..

Reconditioned plates... REMAN

classicauto · 01-08-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection

Sounds like an awful lot of work to go to for no real reason.

Looks good though.

Probably gets them done in batches.

I know we did a huge number of fasteners/pipes/studs etc. up here last year and by the time we gathered crap between my builder myself and few other guys the price to plate the items was almost halved due to the volume.

But yeah I imagine the dipstick tube/rear iron coolant tube are a biatch to remove

05-28-2009, 11:10 AM	#1
*Herblenny* Founder/Administrator/Internet Pitbull :) Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 644 Rep Power: 10	Chip, I was told you should lap after nitrating not lap and nitrate... Can you clearify that for me?? Also, I've heard that the process of nitrile is not completely flat... Hence Rick Engman laps every new irons when he builds race engines. Just wanted to know your thoughts.. I do understand that it does make the surface to wear less. __________________ DGRR 2013 - Year of 13B www.DealsGapRotaryRally.com http://www.facebook.com/Herblenny

05-28-2009, 11:41 AM	#2
To_Slow Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Shelby Twp MI. Posts: 315 Rep Power: 18	On used plates you need to lap first to get the step wear down flat, on new plates they do a good job from the factory making them flat and true( never checked but will from now on). Re-nitrate to a low heat to have it harden down about 3-4 thou deep after lapping. That low heat 99% will not warp the plate and no need for a touch up on re lapping after nitrating. All the plate are dial cheeked for warpage and if necessary the will be re lapped very lightly.5 thou at most... But never had a warped plate yet coming out of the nitrating process... But at the same time i will start checking the new plate from Mazda for warpage.. you never know... At the same time everybody has there own take on lapping or lapping with nitrating. But i can guaranty you that lapping a used plate 2-3 thou deep and checking the hardness with a dial indicator. it a much softer material with out the nitrating. Thus making sense that wear will occur more rapidly in a plate with out nitrating than with... Hope that helps... __________________ My link

05-28-2009, 12:55 PM	#3
TehMonkay Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 302 Rep Power: 18	Hot damn this sounds like a good deal __________________ My car blows up everytime I start it, it's rotary

09-29-2009, 07:15 PM	#4
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin Posts: 855 Rep Power: 17	Wow! That is a significant change. I may have a set for you to resurface in a few months when I tear the engine in my car down to install the new 9.5:1 rotors. I didn't know about this and lapped the irons myself (although I didn't remove any 0.002-0.003", more like 0.0005"). I am sure they will need it again by then if the hardness is that much different(with 10,000 miles on the clock). I should have known that there was some reason that everyone didn't just do the lapping themselves.... I will let you know if they show appreciable wear (I don't want this engine to fail anytime soon). __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic) Last edited by NoDOHC; 09-29-2009 at 07:18 PM.

12-09-2009, 05:08 PM	#5
To_Slow Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Shelby Twp MI. Posts: 315 Rep Power: 18	Still Running that 420.00$$ per 13b special for RCC members..... __________________ My link

12-10-2009, 01:29 AM	#6
mazdadude7 Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Franklin, NC Posts: 410 Rep Power: 18	Thats a good deal!

01-07-2010, 02:34 AM	#7
91GSL-SE At the dirt track. Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Willamette Valley, OR Posts: 89 Rep Power: 16	Hi could you tell me what the RMS (Surface finish)is after the final lapping? Thanks. __________________ Rollin like a reuleaux. Unstoppable.

01-07-2010, 09:20 AM	#8
To_Slow Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Shelby Twp MI. Posts: 315 Rep Power: 18	Just finished up a set of plates for a customer 3 rotor... Enjoy The cost for me to have these done went up, so i'm pasing the savings on. 480.00 for a 13b 640.00 for a 20b __________________ My link Last edited by To_Slow; 01-07-2010 at 05:07 PM.

01-08-2010, 09:26 AM	#11
To_Slow Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Shelby Twp MI. Posts: 315 Rep Power: 18	61 rms __________________ My link