Turbo on RX-8

[Herblenny]

Originally Posted by RCCAZ 1

Guys,

MazdaManiac here in Phoenix has probably the best kit on the market for making power (Greddy Kit with upgraded turbo). He also is an expert on the Cobb Access port, which is quickly becoming the tool of choice for unlocking the potential of the stock Mazda EMS.

Hope He will get on and describe more about this Cobb Access thing....

[mazdamaniac]

Originally Posted by RCCAZ 1

Guys,

MazdaManiac here in Phoenix has probably the best kit on the market for making power (Greddy Kit with upgraded turbo). He also is an expert on the Cobb Access port, which is quickly becoming the tool of choice for unlocking the potential of the stock Mazda EMS.

Thanks Tim. You are too kind.

Originally Posted by phoenix7

Greddy kits are RE-Amemiya kits renamed for the U.S. MArket aren't they?

No. Amemiya re-badged the GReddy kit for his A/T application. Repriced it accordingly as well!
The GReddy kit fits all RX-8 applications without retrofit, so Im' not sure what the JDM response was to the Amemiya offering.

Originally Posted by Herblenny

Hope He will get on and describe more about this Cobb Access thing....

I'll jump in your thread about that.

Its interesting to me, coming here for the first time, how insulated the markets can get.
Some of the discussion in this thread is straight out of RX-8Club, circa 2005!

You can read about my GReddy upgrade on my site (link is in my SIG - click on Satan's Hairdryer)

As far as output from the various offerings (build quality aside), you can use these graphics for comparison:

[85rx-7gsl-se]

Seriously, does anyone know how much Brian Hinson's kit is going to cost for a LSx? Seems like it would be a better investment than 7k to boost a N/A motor and get only a little over 300hp

[Herblenny]

I've talked to Hinson and he was trying to get LSx into an 8. But I don't think he has done it yet...

Cost, it will be 7-12k, pending motor.

But the problem I might see is how the motor will sit (renesis sits very low) and the LSx ems will work with rx8s ems which controls abs, traction, etc..

But at the end, LSx 8 vs older Z06, you aren't getting much benefit... FD vs. older Z06, at least you have the weight advantage, but not with the 8.. I guess if you want to be cool with V8 under instead, I guess i could see that But I would rather just go out and buy an Z06 instead the headache of conversion... Few FD V8 owners have done that after their conversion... go out and buy the original that came with the LSx engine..

[Phoenix7]

Greddy kits are RE-Amemiya kits renamed for the U.S. MArket aren't they?

[fikren]

I think there are probabley plenty of places that offer a "nice" kit. I think the main point of Phil's thread though was does the cost of these "nice" kits compared to the relativly small gains justify turboing the 8's engine or would it be better money spent to do some sort of swap.

[Herblenny]

WOW! Mazsport one is laggy!!

MM version looks the best so far

[BBullet8]

what I think is that there are enough people on this site that are smart enough and know enough people to build a kit that will be most efficient and fairly cheap. it just seems to me that we all complain about something yet we do nothing. Phil I know that you have done a lot with the 7s is there anything that you have learned from those that we could apply to the 8 and make it awesome.

[mazdamaniac]

Air = Power.
That is pretty much all there is to it.
Folks will go on about "lag" (which it usually isn't) and "boost" (which is a symptom, not an effect) and sometimes "flow" will be mentioned in the same breath as "restriction" or "loss", which isn't strictly possible.
You move air mass through an engine. It makes power. That is all there is to it.
You need to select the proper device for the job and then give it a place to live and breathe.
The problem is, superstition, tradition and secrecy abound in all levels of this hobby/industry - mostly fostered by a fear of being wrong or being "found out". Often, its just plain sloth.

For the most part, if someone claims to "know the secret" but won't talk about it, its because they don't "know the secret". Mainly, because there isn't one.

I tend to go the other way. When I've figured something out, I lay it all out there. I've got nothing to protect. Those that already know how to do this stuff already know what I know.
Those that don't, won't learn a damn thing to save their life, so who cares what they see.

The only good reason to hold your cards close is to protect your mental health.
I keep most of my "tuning secrets" to myself just because I don't want to answer the million questions from people that are striving to misapply my data. If you know this stuff, there is nothing I can say to improve your hand.

[WE3RX7]

I've been on vacation so sorry for the delay in this post.

Yep - I had an '04 Turbo 8. It was the first greddy kit produced and came with the shitty e-manage. The car NEVER drove right with the "bolt-on" kit from Greddy. Once the interceptor-x became available, the e-manage was quickly ditched for it. I had used microtech before on other 7s, so the interceptor-x was a much more comfortable area to play in.

I ran the car up 8.5psi to 7K RPM at which time the stock GReddy wastegate configuration flipped out and would fluctuate from 3psi to 7psi every 500rpm or so.

The car never made over 300whp, but did drive very smooth, full boost at 2200rpm and was very "useable".

I'll answer any technical detail you might want - but the short and sweet is my current 8 will stay NA. Turbo Renesis' just arent worth it.

[fikren]

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

I've been on vacation so sorry for the delay in this post.

Yep - I had an '04 Turbo 8. It was the first greddy kit produced and came with the shitty e-manage. The car NEVER drove right with the "bolt-on" kit from Greddy. Once the interceptor-x became available, the e-manage was quickly ditched for it. I had used microtech before on other 7s, so the interceptor-x was a much more comfortable area to play in.

I ran the car up 8.5psi to 7K RPM at which time the stock GReddy wastegate configuration flipped out and would fluctuate from 3psi to 7psi every 500rpm or so.

The car never made over 300whp, but did drive very smooth, full boost at 2200rpm and was very "useable".

I'll answer any technical detail you might want - but the short and sweet is my current 8 will stay NA. Turbo Renesis' just arent worth it.

Would you say your problems were with adding a turbo to the renesis or would you say the problems were more the greddy turbo kit (wastegates and all) and ecu problems. I guess what I'm getting at was it the turbo and engine as a whole that left a sour taste in your mouth or possibly just the components that left a sour taste?

[WE3RX7]

To be honest, its a combination of things that turn me off from wanting to do the turbo renesis again. Cost, time, resources, frustration, etc

As a whole, I was pretty happy with the end result. The car had what the renesis was missing, which was a bottom end and STRONG mid range that pulled. The problem was it fell off at 7k, no matter what you do, that problem is in the hardware. I think with a different turbo and manifold setup, the renesis exhaust ports would easily support upwards of 10-13psi and make well over 300whp all day long reliably, but at what cost?

The biggest problem is the engine. I just dont see a configuration that will come online early enough and still maintain a high enough level of boost to make big numbers (500+) on the renesis. I hope someday I'm shown differently. I'd love to see a bolt on 500whp kit for the renesis...

Probably the biggest turn off is that I was/am a seven guy. You can get so much more for much less effort with an old style 13B.

I am still VERY happy with the NA 8s power though. Sure, my current 8 doesnt have the HP the last one did, but its still fun. I think with all the bolt ons and the soon to come out RB header - the NA renesis will make plenty of good power for a daily driver and weekend track day. After all, its still a 200+ hp NA 13B, thats good in any book.

My big HP goals will be achieved the old fashioned way - big port, big turbo, old car

[Phoenix7]

^^^ isn't that like asking for a 400hp bolt-on kit for the NA FC? It seems a tad on the idealistic/dream side to want 500hp bolt-on for the NA 13B or am I not giving the Renesis due credit?

[85rx-7gsl-se]

Originally Posted by phoenix7

^^^ isn't that like asking for a 400hp bolt-on kit for the NA FC? It seems a tad on the idealistic/dream side to want 500hp bolt-on for the NA 13B or am I not giving the Renesis due credit?

I believe that is his point, he would love to see it happen, but knows it won't happen

[Herblenny]

mazdamaniac, I'm guessing you are using stock maf system and using the stock ems to adjust?? Where as traditional "boost" uses map sensor bases system (in rotaries)... which I'm guessing is the difference... maybe i could be wrong as I have not done much renesis turbo systems or seen many until this thread...

By saying that, I know very little about the limitation of maf system. Last time I got in a conversation about it was about 5-6 years ago with a good friend SPOAutos. Im sure most of us here know very little as most of us never dealt with maf based system. Can you tell us what kind of issues or limitation (HP) it will handle before going with map based system??

Personally, I do like the idea that you use the stock EMS and maf (which I could be wrong). And since its maf based, maps could be interchangeable from car to car without the traditional idea about each cars needing specific tune etc... Please correct me if I'm way off... I would like to know and who knows, maybe renesis technology could be used on my FD or my duece. I do have a spare renesis at home

Also if you could tell us what kind of compensation the stock ecu does (ie air temp, coolant, etc)...