Warning Light Cluster problem

Pete_89T2 · 07-27-2014, 07:49 AM

Yesterday all of the idiot lights in my warning light cluster with the exception of the brake & check engine light lit up and stayed on with the car running. The clock in the cluster still works fine, and I've done the cold-solder joint fix on the cluster years ago to correct the wonky clock. This is on an S5T2. Since I needed get somewhere, I just shut it off and switched to the daily driver.

I seem to recall this is "normal" idiot light behavior for FC's when you have an alternator/charging system failure - rather than just the "Charge" light coming on. Can anyone confirm this?

If true, then I should check out my charging system today. Assuming that checks out good, could this be another symptom of cold solder joints in the warning light cluster?

***TitaniumTT*** · 07-27-2014, 10:16 AM

You're on both right tracks Pete.... I wouldn't be surprised if the alt puked or the belt broke

Pete_89T2 · 07-27-2014, 11:11 AM

Checked the charging system out this morning, looks like my alternator puked... Belts are fine & tensioned properly. Did some quick DVM measurements with the engine idling resulted in only 11.4V with no extra accessories on, which dropped to about 11.2 with the headlights on & heater fan running @ max. Shutting the engine off and taking the same measurements resulted in 12.5V with lights off and 11.9 with lights on, so the battery is healthy.

Pete_89T2 · 07-27-2014, 11:35 AM

On another (related) topic, since I'll need to replace my alternator, I'd like to replace it with one of those higher than stock output current (> 100 Amps) drop-in alternators. There are a number of shops out there that build these, some more reputable than others. Was wondering if anyone had any experience with this that has a good shop to recommend?

RETed · 07-27-2014, 06:50 PM

I'm going through a bunch right now...

I already run an FD alternator on my FC 13BT.

I've got a "160A" FD unit off of eBay for like ~$160.
It's a disappointment.
The damn thing barely idles @ ~13.0VDC.
Loaded down at idle, it runs about 12.0VDC.
The seller was named "HighAmpSpecialist" or something like that.

One of my previous posts talks about having good experience (rebuilt starter for my FC) from an eBay seller "AceAlternators" (or something like that), but they don't offer an FD unit anything over 130A now...
They used to have a 160A, but I haven't seen that unit for sale for a few months now.

There's another eBay seller called B&R or something, and they offer FD alternators in the 160A range for about $200?

Check the feedback. and there's negative comments of the upgrade alternators being bullsh*t.

I would highly recommend to go with a MechMan unit if you got the bucks...
Last time I checked, it was about $330?
Yes, it's a little pricey, but these things are rated like 250A...
http://www.mechman.com/

-Ted

***TitaniumTT*** · 07-27-2014, 08:53 PM

I'm not sure these really hi Amp alts are all that necessary unless you're running one or a few accessories that pull some serious Amps...
I run a stock FD alt and I seem to not have voltage issues. Although I've rewired the car and the charging and the main distribution wires so voltage loss isn't a concern to me.
That being said I don't get a full 14.4volts, it's usually around 14.1-14.2 but I'm still playing around with resistance values on the excite wire.

2gslse · 07-27-2014, 09:23 PM

Pete, I would just run a stock FD alternator on your car and get the correct pulley to run the v-belt. I am running a FD alt on my FB and have 2 044 bosch pumps, 17" electric fan, electric PS pump and all the other power goodies and it keeps up fine so far.

Pete_89T2 · 07-28-2014, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2gslse

Pete, I would just run a stock FD alternator on your car and get the correct pulley to run the v-belt. I am running a FD alt on my FB and have 2 044 bosch pumps, 17" electric fan, electric PS pump and all the other power goodies and it keeps up fine so far.

A stock FD alternator should have enough juice for anything I'm running now, plus whatever I might add down the road (e.g., stereo upgrade/e-fan).

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed

I'm going through a bunch right now...

I already run an FD alternator on my FC 13BT.

I've got a "160A" FD unit off of eBay for like ~$160.
It's a disappointment.
The damn thing barely idles @ ~13.0VDC.
Loaded down at idle, it runs about 12.0VDC.
The seller was named "HighAmpSpecialist" or something like that.

One of my previous posts talks about having good experience (rebuilt starter for my FC) from an eBay seller "AceAlternators" (or something like that), but they don't offer an FD unit anything over 130A now...
They used to have a 160A, but I haven't seen that unit for sale for a few months now.

There's another eBay seller called B&R or something, and they offer FD alternators in the 160A range for about $200?

Check the feedback. and there's negative comments of the upgrade alternators being bullsh*t.

I would highly recommend to go with a MechMan unit if you got the bucks...
Last time I checked, it was about $330?
Yes, it's a little pricey, but these things are rated like 250A...
http://www.mechman.com/

-Ted

Yup, I recall you mentioned AceAlternators on ebay, and took a look there. They have S5 drop-ins for about $140 that are rated 110A, which is roughly the same as a stock FD alternator. They didn't show anything in stock above 110A. One year warrantee on it FWIW. I might give them a shot as it's enough juice for my current & future needs, and I can reuse the dual belt pulley I already have.

Also heard good things about the Mechman alternators, but that is overkill & too much coin for my needs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

I'm not sure these really hi Amp alts are all that necessary unless you're running one or a few accessories that pull some serious Amps...
I run a stock FD alt and I seem to not have voltage issues. Although I've rewired the car and the charging and the main distribution wires so voltage loss isn't a concern to me.
That being said I don't get a full 14.4volts, it's usually around 14.1-14.2 but I'm still playing around with resistance values on the excite wire.

Stock S5 alternator is about 70~80A at most; I'm just looking for a better reliability margin to ensure the fuel pump gets enough juice when I'm running all the stock electrical loads, and any future changes (big stereo, e-fan, etc.). So something in the stock FD range (100~110A) should be fine.

RETed · 07-28-2014, 11:40 AM

Just for reference...

1987 Turbo II
13BT
Haltech E8
Electric fan - measured @ 17A of steady-state current pull
HID's - "35W", 4300K
Stereo:
Alpine 7618
Rockford Fosgate PA-1HD
Rockford Fosgate EPX2
Currently running an Adcom GFA-5275, but have also ran Harman Kardon CA260, Precision Power 2075AM, Adcom GFA-4403 (bridged)
Only running a pair of separates at the moment: originally a Diamond Audio D3 D351, but tweeters were bad, so replaced them with some Polk DB1001's

Everything on (at night), the HKS voltmeter will dip under 12.0VDC.
My original silverrotor FD alternator was able to hold 13.0VDC, but it had a problem with shutting off the exciter field in the alternator when keying off.
I am more comfortable having everything over 13.5VDC at idle with it loaded down, and ideally 14.5VDC...
I am eyeing the Mechman alternator, cause it claims it'll pump out 100A of current @ idle!

-Ted

Pete_89T2 · 08-01-2014, 01:12 PM

FWIW, I ended up picking up that 110A alternator from AceAlternators on ebay. I have no means of measuring current draw to verify the 110A upgrade, but here's the voltages I'm seeing with it:

@ 750 RPM idle, low beams on + fog lights on + A/C fan on max = 12.6V. Nudge the idle up to 850 RPMs or higher, and it goes up to ~13.6V.

With same loads switched off, from low idle and up nets between 13.6~14.5V.

Also I have an alternator installation tip that might be useful if anyone runs into the problem I had. This particular alternator didn't want to slip over the water pump housing at the pivot point - it was maybe a few thousands of an inch too tight, and there was no persuading it to fit. After much cursing, and considering shipping it back, I had a brilliant idea... Just loosen the 4 bolts that hold the alternator halves together about a 1/4~1/2 turn each; that "spreads" the alternator half's just enough to get it to slip over the water pump housing pivot point. Once the pivot bolt was in, I just tightened the 4 alternator bolts back down and everything was fine.

***TitaniumTT*** · 08-01-2014, 01:54 PM

That's interesting.... generally the nut on the alternator case itself will slide in and out. I have a dedicated 1/4" extension that I use for beating shit with.... slide that through the bolt hole, offset it a little and beat on it... or... use the mounting bolt itself, thread it in a few threads and pound away on the head - giggitty

I've swapped many an alternator case from powdercoating and what I've noticed is if the halves aren't PERFECT, it sounds like shit and the bearings will probably go bad quickly. O would take the alt off and make sure the halves are tight and true, it spins very easily by hand, follow the above tip and put everything back together.

Cheers

***TitaniumTT*** · 08-01-2014, 01:56 PM

Oh... good to know someone has replacement alts pretty cheap... curious as to how long it lasts though... I generally don't have good luck with reman'ed alts. Can't tell if it's the salt air, or the eff'ed up wiring that I had been using in the past....

RETed · 08-01-2014, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete_89T2

FWIW, I ended up picking up that 110A alternator from AceAlternators on ebay. I have no means of measuring current draw to verify the 110A upgrade, but here's the voltages I'm seeing with it:

I picked up a Mastech MS2108A as a cheapie option for now.
You can get them for under $50 shipped - check eBay and Amazon.
Until I can scrape up the skrillah to get a Fluke for several hundred $, the Mastech is "close enough" - who cares if it's off by 20%?

Quote:

@ 750 RPM idle, low beams on + fog lights on + A/C fan on max = 12.6V. Nudge the idle up to 850 RPMs or higher, and it goes up to ~13.6V.

With same loads switched off, from low idle and up nets between 13.6~14.5V.

It sounds like you got a better unit than I did.
I've never seen mines go over 13.9VDC, and it's an FD unit rated to 150A... :P

-Ted

07-27-2014, 07:49 AM	#1
Pete_89T2 Lifetime Rotorhead Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Elkton, MD iTrader: (1) Posts: 874 Rep Power: 15	Warning Light Cluster problem Yesterday all of the idiot lights in my warning light cluster with the exception of the brake & check engine light lit up and stayed on with the car running. The clock in the cluster still works fine, and I've done the cold-solder joint fix on the cluster years ago to correct the wonky clock. This is on an S5T2. Since I needed get somewhere, I just shut it off and switched to the daily driver. I seem to recall this is "normal" idiot light behavior for FC's when you have an alternator/charging system failure - rather than just the "Charge" light coming on. Can anyone confirm this? If true, then I should check out my charging system today. Assuming that checks out good, could this be another symptom of cold solder joints in the warning light cluster?

07-27-2014, 10:16 AM	#2
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	You're on both right tracks Pete.... I wouldn't be surprised if the alt puked or the belt broke __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

07-27-2014, 08:53 PM	#6
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	I'm not sure these really hi Amp alts are all that necessary unless you're running one or a few accessories that pull some serious Amps... I run a stock FD alt and I seem to not have voltage issues. Although I've rewired the car and the charging and the main distribution wires so voltage loss isn't a concern to me. That being said I don't get a full 14.4volts, it's usually around 14.1-14.2 but I'm still playing around with resistance values on the excite wire. __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

07-27-2014, 09:23 PM	#7
2gslse Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: front royal va iTrader: (0) Posts: 440 Rep Power: 17	Pete, I would just run a stock FD alternator on your car and get the correct pulley to run the v-belt. I am running a FD alt on my FB and have 2 044 bosch pumps, 17" electric fan, electric PS pump and all the other power goodies and it keeps up fine so far. __________________ ____________________________________________ 1976 Cosmo needing lots of work 1993 Rx-7 410 RWHP single turbo toy 1985 Rx-7 toy/project car 411HP stoplight terror 2001 Dodge ram 4wd.parts hauler 2016 Ram 2500 cause its a hemi 2006 VW TDI commuter __________________________________________ I guarantee there's a pregnant redneck teenager somewhere in a shitty trailer park that thinks "Ebola would be a lovely name for their child"...

08-01-2014, 01:54 PM	#11
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	That's interesting.... generally the nut on the alternator case itself will slide in and out. I have a dedicated 1/4" extension that I use for beating shit with.... slide that through the bolt hole, offset it a little and beat on it... or... use the mounting bolt itself, thread it in a few threads and pound away on the head - giggitty I've swapped many an alternator case from powdercoating and what I've noticed is if the halves aren't PERFECT, it sounds like shit and the bearings will probably go bad quickly. O would take the alt off and make sure the halves are tight and true, it spins very easily by hand, follow the above tip and put everything back together. Cheers __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

07-27-2014, 11:11 AM	#3
Pete_89T2 Lifetime Rotorhead Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Elkton, MD iTrader: (1) Posts: 874 Rep Power: 15	Checked the charging system out this morning, looks like my alternator puked... Belts are fine & tensioned properly. Did some quick DVM measurements with the engine idling resulted in only 11.4V with no extra accessories on, which dropped to about 11.2 with the headlights on & heater fan running @ max. Shutting the engine off and taking the same measurements resulted in 12.5V with lights off and 11.9 with lights on, so the battery is healthy.

07-27-2014, 11:35 AM	#4
Pete_89T2 Lifetime Rotorhead Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Elkton, MD iTrader: (1) Posts: 874 Rep Power: 15	On another (related) topic, since I'll need to replace my alternator, I'd like to replace it with one of those higher than stock output current (> 100 Amps) drop-in alternators. There are a number of shops out there that build these, some more reputable than others. Was wondering if anyone had any experience with this that has a good shop to recommend?

08-01-2014, 01:12 PM	#10
Pete_89T2 Lifetime Rotorhead Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Elkton, MD iTrader: (1) Posts: 874 Rep Power: 15	FWIW, I ended up picking up that 110A alternator from AceAlternators on ebay. I have no means of measuring current draw to verify the 110A upgrade, but here's the voltages I'm seeing with it: @ 750 RPM idle, low beams on + fog lights on + A/C fan on max = 12.6V. Nudge the idle up to 850 RPMs or higher, and it goes up to ~13.6V. With same loads switched off, from low idle and up nets between 13.6~14.5V. Also I have an alternator installation tip that might be useful if anyone runs into the problem I had. This particular alternator didn't want to slip over the water pump housing at the pivot point - it was maybe a few thousands of an inch too tight, and there was no persuading it to fit. After much cursing, and considering shipping it back, I had a brilliant idea... Just loosen the 4 bolts that hold the alternator halves together about a 1/4~1/2 turn each; that "spreads" the alternator half's just enough to get it to slip over the water pump housing pivot point. Once the pivot bolt was in, I just tightened the 4 alternator bolts back down and everything was fine.

08-01-2014, 01:56 PM	#12
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Oh... good to know someone has replacement alts pretty cheap... curious as to how long it lasts though... I generally don't have good luck with reman'ed alts. Can't tell if it's the salt air, or the eff'ed up wiring that I had been using in the past.... __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**