Project: Weeeelllll Sh*t (56k) BEWARE

MO417FD · 03-17-2011, 12:08 PM

This is some old news since it happened towards the end of November. My car is officially down

I was driving behind a coke truck on the highway back to my hotel in Tulsa for work, when I started noticing a misfire / stutter when I pushed in the clutch. I was like "uh-oh" that's not right and started looking for the nearest exit. I pulled off the highway and as I exited the motor just died. I knew right off the bat that I have some big time motor issues.
I had my tool box in the back that I never took out during the Eureka drive and pulled the plugs to listen to the compression pulses. And as I suspected not all the faces sounded the same. :cry: Needless to say I spent most of the day getting the car home on the trailer and trying to figure out what to do.
In all honesty I'm not to bummed out for it going. I have to maintain a glass half full outlook since this car was originally sold to me as having a blown motor. But through some researching, examining the car and fixing the bad parts I think I got a good year and a half of daily driving and fun out of it.
That being said I never really trusted or felt truly comfortable with the motor in it. Every other day I was checking the coolant and topping it off since I could smell the sweetness in the exhaust when first fired up and also noticed a few drops of coolant coming from the bell housing area when ever I would get underneath the car. The oil pan leaked ever since I owned it with 3000 miles, which is always annoying and among other things.
So, the FD is going to be down for a while as I gather parts to put the car back together and actually do the stuff I have always wanted to do. It'll be easier now since the motor will be out of the way. But I thought I might share with you guys and don't worry I'll still attend the events sans rotor...... FOR NOW :twisted:

I've determined that the project name is appropriate. Some friends and I pulled the motor out and discovered how shitty it was assembled and yet astonished how long it lasted considering it's construction. Here's some pics of the tear down. The motor didn't blow up as I first had thought. The best way to describe its demise is that it pretty much gave up and fell apart.

And now the motor is out and here is when the big problems become apparent. Look at all this silicone! None of its suppose to be there, including the tension bolts. Who ever built this knew they screwed up and decided to cover it up with silicone. Which is now an ongoing joke at the shop if something happens. "just cover it with silicone!"

Regular RTV Silicone oozing out between the housings and plates

Well there's my leak i've been looking for!

The reason for this is because of the improper coolant sealing techniques used and improper torquing of the tension bolts as well as a misalignment of the added "dowling"

The rotor made some slight marks, it's hard to tell in this photo but it's there

The damn ORIGINAL water seals were still in there from when mazda assembled the motor, and this was suppose to be a rebuild!

A continuation of the rebuild progress that is being made with the motor. Before I start I just want to say thanks again for my buddies in teaching me the steps to rebuild my first motor. Like a majority of us know, 2/3rds of a rebuild is cleaning, but damn it's really amazing on how much there actually is to clean! And I'm 100% sold on pre-mixing/ water injection if it helps out in keeping the insides clean 8-)

Here are some pics of the rotors in the tank being cleaned up, this is actually after they were sitting in a bucket of hardcore chemicals for a while dissolving the carbon and making it EXTREMELY easy to scrub off. So it's a multiphase process. I must also say that I scored a low mileage REW motor which is what I'm using to replace the one that broke.....

This is after they were pulled from the tank and needed to be wiped down.

I took this pic of a dirty rotor and the cleaned one to compare the difference. The one on the left is a 12a rotor while the right one is a 13b.

Here is a pic of the plate getting ready to be cleaned and after the porting has been done.

Clean rotors FTW!!!!

An uncessary thing, but I decided to try out the water cooling mod. It took some time to do and a steady hand. After I finish this then the housings will be put in the tank and cleaned. <---catching on to a theme here

Next up assembly!!!! Stay tuned :twisted:

Since I'm taking the time to do this; as is the case with everything I seem to do, I had the housing powder coated chrome.

Cleaned and pre powder coated

And the end result

I managed to get half the motor put together but had to stop cause the remaining side seals that we had were to far out of spec for the rear face of the front rotor. Some new ones are on order. No question the motor will be fully assembled this week as just a few more hours of work needs to be done. Then once the tax return comes in I can place my full order of parts and the install process can begin!!!

New seals and gaskets, this is what should of been done the first time when the motor was rebuilt.

2mm RA Super seals FTW!

Oil control rings, lubed up ready to be put on the rotors

Oil control ring springs

Front cover with cleaned up stationary gear installed

Look new water seals with hylomar! <---- This was not the case when we tore apart the motor that came out of the FD

Front faced Front Rotor with Atkins corner seals and everything installed....

Random picture of my buddy Greggs RX-3 sitting outside while I was building the motor

MO417FD · 03-17-2011, 12:09 PM

And the assembly continues

Check the bottom of the pics for the specialized tool we milled down for us to use in grinding new side seals to spec, very very cool.

Center plate ready for a rotor

Eccentric shaft installed

Rear rotor with oil control rings installed

Rear rotor in place

Rear housing installed

Rear plate installed

Rear plate with tension bolts numbered for proper torque sequence

And Voila!! Finished short block

A little side story involved during assembly. I finished placing the rear rotor in and was placing my last corner seal, when I looked down and noticed that there was an extra corner seal spring sitting on the staging area! I was like "oh no, I couldn't have forgot to put a corner spring in, I know I checked all the corners for spring return." I quickly asked the guys if they have ever had an extra spring shipped in the bag. And of course the answer was no. So needless to say instead of risking it, we just decided to pull it apart and double check. It turned out they did ship an extra one.

Now on to the coolest part of the build I think. For those that are not familar with new side seals, there is a bit of triming to be done in order to get them to fit since they ship longer than what they need to be. We decided to use a junk rotor to act as our jig for grinding down the side seals. This is pretty ideal considering it doesn't allow movement side to side (potentially breaking). Some people may be actually doing it, but we haven't seen the actual rotor milled down like this to help grind the side seals.

We then milled down a side of the face to allow the seal to be grabbed and pushed along it's intended location as a guide/rail.

One corner was left untouched for about 3/4 of an inch and then stepped to allow the seal to be pushed down fully with one hand and guided by the other. Once the rotor was milled then it was placed in the drill press and a circular grinding stone was installed, guided inside the corner seal bore and locked into position.

You can see the seal sitting and the rear is exposed so it can be pushed along

Next up, is getting it to long block status then the car itself; for it's modifications.

MO417FD · 03-17-2011, 12:21 PM

Oops sorry mods, I just noticed your rotary car build up section. Newb mistake.......

***TitaniumTT*** · 03-17-2011, 02:12 PM

No worries, I moved it

***TitaniumTT*** · 03-17-2011, 02:15 PM

I saw the rotor being milled and at first I was like WTF?!?!?!?!??! SCALLOPING GONE WRONG!!!!... THen I actually read it.... cool idea. I have always wanted to build a jig of sorts, this is a dame good idea... I may have to do this myself!

ChaserAero · 03-17-2011, 02:35 PM

Looks super clean thus far with the updated progress. Sucks about the "rebuild."

vex · 03-17-2011, 02:54 PM

Funny story; I had an extra fire ring shipped in one of my packs. Caused me to tear down my block again as well.

speedjunkie · 03-17-2011, 02:56 PM

I'm curious about what the RTV was supposed to hide, especially on the tension bolts LOL.

And damn those rotors are super clean. Nice build! That's a nice RX-3 too.

Ian · 03-17-2011, 05:14 PM

OMG that original motor is a joke... Nice build....

***TitaniumTT*** · 03-17-2011, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vex

Funny story; I had an extra fire ring shipped in one of my packs. Caused me to tear down my block again as well.

I remember that.... same thing happened to me with an extra dowel pin o-ring in CA..... stupid Mazdatrix

hades · 03-17-2011, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

I remember that.... same thing happened to me with an extra dowel pin o-ring in CA..... stupid Mazdatrix

to bad they didn't ship you an extra exhaust sleeve.....

MO417FD · 03-17-2011, 07:56 PM

Thanks for the compliments guys. I have 3 of my buddies here with a combined experience of over 100 years and they said that was one of the worst motors they have seen put together. Really the pictures don't show the true nature of how bad it was.
I'm not by computer, but I have more pics of the build I'll share tomorrow.
At least I know I'm not the only one that had experience with tearing apart a motor cause of an extra included part haha. That's a truly gut turning experience I don't want to repeat.

***TitaniumTT*** · 03-17-2011, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hades

to bad they didn't ship you an extra exhaust sleeve.....

I'm going to stab you

in the eyes

like your other TX breatheren

in 42 days

Force13b · 03-18-2011, 04:37 PM

Build looks good.

MO417FD · 03-18-2011, 08:03 PM

A few more pictures as promised I had left on the computer. This is the current status of the motor as I am awaiting for the rest of the parts to get back from the powder coater.

I didn't like having the extra ribbing on the main pulley that will never be used, so I put it on the lathe and turned it down.

03-17-2011, 12:08 PM	#1
MO417FD Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Springfield, MO iTrader: (0) Posts: 50 Rep Power: 16	*Project: Weeeelllll Sht (56k) BEWARE** This is some old news since it happened towards the end of November. My car is officially down I was driving behind a coke truck on the highway back to my hotel in Tulsa for work, when I started noticing a misfire / stutter when I pushed in the clutch. I was like "uh-oh" that's not right and started looking for the nearest exit. I pulled off the highway and as I exited the motor just died. I knew right off the bat that I have some big time motor issues. I had my tool box in the back that I never took out during the Eureka drive and pulled the plugs to listen to the compression pulses. And as I suspected not all the faces sounded the same. :cry: Needless to say I spent most of the day getting the car home on the trailer and trying to figure out what to do. In all honesty I'm not to bummed out for it going. I have to maintain a glass half full outlook since this car was originally sold to me as having a blown motor. But through some researching, examining the car and fixing the bad parts I think I got a good year and a half of daily driving and fun out of it. That being said I never really trusted or felt truly comfortable with the motor in it. Every other day I was checking the coolant and topping it off since I could smell the sweetness in the exhaust when first fired up and also noticed a few drops of coolant coming from the bell housing area when ever I would get underneath the car. The oil pan leaked ever since I owned it with 3000 miles, which is always annoying and among other things. So, the FD is going to be down for a while as I gather parts to put the car back together and actually do the stuff I have always wanted to do. It'll be easier now since the motor will be out of the way. But I thought I might share with you guys and don't worry I'll still attend the events sans rotor...... FOR NOW :twisted: I've determined that the project name is appropriate. Some friends and I pulled the motor out and discovered how shitty it was assembled and yet astonished how long it lasted considering it's construction. Here's some pics of the tear down. The motor didn't blow up as I first had thought. The best way to describe its demise is that it pretty much gave up and fell apart. And now the motor is out and here is when the big problems become apparent. Look at all this silicone! None of its suppose to be there, including the tension bolts. Who ever built this knew they screwed up and decided to cover it up with silicone. Which is now an ongoing joke at the shop if something happens. "just cover it with silicone!" Regular RTV Silicone oozing out between the housings and plates Well there's my leak i've been looking for! The reason for this is because of the improper coolant sealing techniques used and improper torquing of the tension bolts as well as a misalignment of the added "dowling" The rotor made some slight marks, it's hard to tell in this photo but it's there The damn ORIGINAL water seals were still in there from when mazda assembled the motor, and this was suppose to be a rebuild! A continuation of the rebuild progress that is being made with the motor. Before I start I just want to say thanks again for my buddies in teaching me the steps to rebuild my first motor. Like a majority of us know, 2/3rds of a rebuild is cleaning, but damn it's really amazing on how much there actually is to clean! And I'm 100% sold on pre-mixing/ water injection if it helps out in keeping the insides clean 8-) Here are some pics of the rotors in the tank being cleaned up, this is actually after they were sitting in a bucket of hardcore chemicals for a while dissolving the carbon and making it EXTREMELY easy to scrub off. So it's a multiphase process. I must also say that I scored a low mileage REW motor which is what I'm using to replace the one that broke..... This is after they were pulled from the tank and needed to be wiped down. I took this pic of a dirty rotor and the cleaned one to compare the difference. The one on the left is a 12a rotor while the right one is a 13b. Here is a pic of the plate getting ready to be cleaned and after the porting has been done. Clean rotors FTW!!!! An uncessary thing, but I decided to try out the water cooling mod. It took some time to do and a steady hand. After I finish this then the housings will be put in the tank and cleaned. <---catching on to a theme here Next up assembly!!!! Stay tuned :twisted: Since I'm taking the time to do this; as is the case with everything I seem to do, I had the housing powder coated chrome. Cleaned and pre powder coated And the end result I managed to get half the motor put together but had to stop cause the remaining side seals that we had were to far out of spec for the rear face of the front rotor. Some new ones are on order. No question the motor will be fully assembled this week as just a few more hours of work needs to be done. Then once the tax return comes in I can place my full order of parts and the install process can begin!!! New seals and gaskets, this is what should of been done the first time when the motor was rebuilt. 2mm RA Super seals FTW! Oil control rings, lubed up ready to be put on the rotors Oil control ring springs Front cover with cleaned up stationary gear installed Look new water seals with hylomar! <---- This was not the case when we tore apart the motor that came out of the FD Front faced Front Rotor with Atkins corner seals and everything installed.... Random picture of my buddy Greggs RX-3 sitting outside while I was building the motor Last edited by MO417FD; 03-17-2011 at 12:11 PM.. Reason: Change title to warn the dial up users

03-17-2011, 02:12 PM	#4
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	No worries, I moved it __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

03-17-2011, 02:15 PM	#5
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	I saw the rotor being milled and at first I was like WTF?!?!?!?!??! SCALLOPING GONE WRONG!!!!... THen I actually read it.... cool idea. I have always wanted to build a jig of sorts, this is a dame good idea... I may have to do this myself! __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

03-17-2011, 02:35 PM	#6
ChaserAero www.aerokits.net Join Date: Mar 2010 iTrader: (0) Posts: 33 Rep Power: 0	Looks super clean thus far with the updated progress. Sucks about the "rebuild." __________________ Chaser Aerodynamics, LLC Please visit our website!! Use coupon code: JB1013 to save 10% on your web order! (866) 360-KITS (5487) ext: 107

03-17-2011, 02:54 PM	#7
vex RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Influx. iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,113 Rep Power: 19	Funny story; I had an extra fire ring shipped in one of my packs. Caused me to tear down my block again as well. __________________ The Official FC Radiator Thread My Project Thread: Cerberus CCVT Virginia Rotary Group

03-17-2011, 12:09 PM	#2
MO417FD Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Springfield, MO iTrader: (0) Posts: 50 Rep Power: 16	And the assembly continues Check the bottom of the pics for the specialized tool we milled down for us to use in grinding new side seals to spec, very very cool. Center plate ready for a rotor Eccentric shaft installed Rear rotor with oil control rings installed Rear rotor in place Rear housing installed Rear plate installed Rear plate with tension bolts numbered for proper torque sequence And Voila!! Finished short block A little side story involved during assembly. I finished placing the rear rotor in and was placing my last corner seal, when I looked down and noticed that there was an extra corner seal spring sitting on the staging area! I was like "oh no, I couldn't have forgot to put a corner spring in, I know I checked all the corners for spring return." I quickly asked the guys if they have ever had an extra spring shipped in the bag. And of course the answer was no. So needless to say instead of risking it, we just decided to pull it apart and double check. It turned out they did ship an extra one. Now on to the coolest part of the build I think. For those that are not familar with new side seals, there is a bit of triming to be done in order to get them to fit since they ship longer than what they need to be. We decided to use a junk rotor to act as our jig for grinding down the side seals. This is pretty ideal considering it doesn't allow movement side to side (potentially breaking). Some people may be actually doing it, but we haven't seen the actual rotor milled down like this to help grind the side seals. We then milled down a side of the face to allow the seal to be grabbed and pushed along it's intended location as a guide/rail. One corner was left untouched for about 3/4 of an inch and then stepped to allow the seal to be pushed down fully with one hand and guided by the other. Once the rotor was milled then it was placed in the drill press and a circular grinding stone was installed, guided inside the corner seal bore and locked into position. You can see the seal sitting and the rear is exposed so it can be pushed along Next up, is getting it to long block status then the car itself; for it's modifications.

03-17-2011, 12:21 PM	#3
MO417FD Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Springfield, MO iTrader: (0) Posts: 50 Rep Power: 16	Oops sorry mods, I just noticed your rotary car build up section. Newb mistake.......

03-17-2011, 02:56 PM	#8
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	I'm curious about what the RTV was supposed to hide, especially on the tension bolts LOL. And damn those rotors are super clean. Nice build! That's a nice RX-3 too.

03-17-2011, 05:14 PM	#9
Ian REIAN Join Date: Feb 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 112 Rep Power: 17	OMG that original motor is a joke... Nice build.... __________________ 1989 Turbo II. Track Car 1988 10thAE. Garage Queen 400+rwhp

03-17-2011, 07:56 PM	#12
MO417FD Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Springfield, MO iTrader: (0) Posts: 50 Rep Power: 16	Thanks for the compliments guys. I have 3 of my buddies here with a combined experience of over 100 years and they said that was one of the worst motors they have seen put together. Really the pictures don't show the true nature of how bad it was. I'm not by computer, but I have more pics of the build I'll share tomorrow. At least I know I'm not the only one that had experience with tearing apart a motor cause of an extra included part haha. That's a truly gut turning experience I don't want to repeat.

03-18-2011, 04:37 PM	#14
Force13b cxxxx\|::::::::::::> Join Date: Nov 2009 iTrader: (1) Posts: 315 Rep Power: 16	Build looks good.

03-18-2011, 08:03 PM	#15
MO417FD Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Springfield, MO iTrader: (0) Posts: 50 Rep Power: 16	A few more pictures as promised I had left on the computer. This is the current status of the motor as I am awaiting for the rest of the parts to get back from the powder coater. I didn't like having the extra ribbing on the main pulley that will never be used, so I put it on the lathe and turned it down.