Stock top mount, beefed up...

sen2two · 03-15-2010, 02:13 PM

I have been wanting to do this for a few years now. And i finally dove into it. I tryed 6 different intercooler set-ups on my last FC to find out what worked best. But that had a much larger turbo. I belive with the stock turbo, the stock intercooler is best. But needs some help to be optimal. Thats when i added the water/meth, wich is great. But the design of the stock intercooler bothered me some. the entry is great, but the exit is horrible. And the TB elbow is even worse. so i did this....

(welds are kinda sloppy, i was having a hard time stablizing the arc. Found out after my TIG torch had some major problems. time to upgrade!)

sen2two · 03-15-2010, 02:14 PM

few more...

sen2two · 03-15-2010, 02:14 PM

finished product...

I did some "testing"... The intercooler made a HUGE difference. Throttle responce was VERY noticable. boost climbed much quicker. The entire powerband felt far better. I will be hitting a dyno at the end of this month to see what she makes. Im hoping for 240-250.

vex · 03-15-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sen2two

finished product...

I did some "testing"... The intercooler made a HUGE difference. Throttle responce was VERY noticable. boost climbed much quicker. The entire powerband felt far better. I will be hitting a dyno at the end of this month to see what she makes. Im hoping for 240-250.

Any pics of the stock setup?

If I ever get my cfd program up and running (OpenFOAM) I may be able to actually give you flow numbers/what not for your modification.

sen2two · 03-15-2010, 05:06 PM

not exactly sure what you mean?

88turboii · 03-15-2010, 06:39 PM

very cool. i think most people underestimate the tmic, location isnt really that bad for under 350whp. at speed, you get plenty of air flow

Hell if you can weld like that, why not just build a completely custom IC? If you look at the stock IC, a lot of the scoop opening is wasted.. the opening is 12" tall, yet the IC is only 9".

If youve seen the ARC tmic up close, it uses all 12" of the opening (12" x 12" core i believe) and the tubes are positioned horizontal instead of vertical. end tanks are on the sides. that way the air doesnt have to take two extra 90 degree turns like the stock IC. im sure you can find a 12x12 core and fab something up? they would sell like hot cakes too

vex · 03-15-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sen2two

not exactly sure what you mean?

Before and after shots.

sen2two · 03-15-2010, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88turboii

very cool. i think most people underestimate the tmic, location isnt really that bad for under 350whp. at speed, you get plenty of air flow

Hell if you can weld like that, why not just build a completely custom IC? If you look at the stock IC, a lot of the scoop opening is wasted.. the opening is 12" tall, yet the IC is only 9".

If youve seen the ARC tmic up close, it uses all 12" of the opening (12" x 12" core i believe) and the tubes are positioned horizontal instead of vertical. end tanks are on the sides. that way the air doesnt have to take two extra 90 degree turns like the stock IC. im sure you can find a 12x12 core and fab something up? they would sell like hot cakes too

I thought about it. But i wanted to keep it stock appearing. At first i was only going to add a larger outlet on th top mount. But then i go a little carried away. I want to use all factory parts, just modified a bit for more power...

Quote:

Originally Posted by vex

Before and after shots.

it was just a stock TII set-up... so any stock TII pic will do. but heres a few of the stock intercooler with some meth injection

...

vex · 03-16-2010, 12:59 AM

Wow... You actually changed the flow pattern a lot by doing that simple modification (just by inspection). You no longer have turbulent flow right at the entrance into the throttle body which is why you feel more power.

Having that sudden bend is better than stock as it reduces turbulence from the flow hitting a dead end wall before continuing down the hole. If you wanted even more power (though I doubt you'll need to do it) you could have the flow angle more slowly into the throttle body. This will help with the turbulence being reduced--you could also rough up the internal structure of the tubes that lead to the throttle body to disturb the laminar flow. This will help maintain airflow velocity.

firzen · 03-16-2010, 10:01 PM

That's the neatest intercooler modification for the stock TMIC I've seen in a while. I'd much rather see something like this done instead of all the work needed for an FM or VMIC.

RETed · 03-16-2010, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firzen

That's the neatest intercooler modification for the stock TMIC I've seen in a while. I'd much rather see something like this done instead of all the work needed for an FM or VMIC.

Neat to see? Yes.
Practical? I don't think so.

Not many people can weld cast aluminum.
Unless the OP is going to offer this mod to others, I don't see the benefits versus a well-engineered FMIC set-up.
I believe you can get an FMIC kit with a Made-in-China IC core for like $500 off of eBay?

I doubt this contraption will outdo an FMIC kit.

-Ted

Max777 · 03-17-2010, 02:47 AM

Well, it's not like he's welding cast "iron" now is he? Cast aluminum isn't that bad if you've got a TIG welder, just set up the wave balance to "clean" the cast out a little bit as you're welding, and use good rod.

Honestly, if you've got a bit of time and some extra aluminium laying around, this would cost like $15 tops in rod/gas/electricity bill. (not including the metal pricing)

RETed · 03-17-2010, 05:03 AM

Last time I checked, a good, name-brand, entry-level TIG was going for a minimum $2,000...
Wow, wish I had that kinda equipment just sitting around.
If I had a TIG like that sitting around, there's a lot of other stuff I would be working on rather than something like this.
...but that's just me.

-Ted

vex · 03-17-2010, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed

Last time I checked, a good, name-brand, entry-level TIG was going for a minimum $2,000...
Wow, wish I had that kinda equipment just sitting around.
If I had a TIG like that sitting around, there's a lot of other stuff I would be working on rather than something like this.
...but that's just me.

-Ted

Miller diversion 165 can be had for 1200-1500 depending on accessories (I'm foaming at the mouth for a Dynasity 200DX though)

Though I'm with you Ted. Most people can't/don't weld cast aluminum due to unknowns in thickness, metal type, and other problems associated with cast aluminum. It can be done, but prep is a pain if the aluminum is not fantastic.

I also think a top mount is an justifiable AIT cooling method for low to medium power levels (stock-300). For more power another setup can be used to better cool the charge; v-mount, front mount, h-mount, etc, etc, etc.

Flash · 03-17-2010, 02:12 PM

Nice work. I don't think there's anything wrong with using what you've got and making it better, especially if the only real cost is a bit of effort. For your setup I think it's smart.

03-15-2010, 02:13 PM	#1
sen2two KTEC Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (2) Posts: 642 Rep Power: 0	Stock top mount, beefed up... I have been wanting to do this for a few years now. And i finally dove into it. I tryed 6 different intercooler set-ups on my last FC to find out what worked best. But that had a much larger turbo. I belive with the stock turbo, the stock intercooler is best. But needs some help to be optimal. Thats when i added the water/meth, wich is great. But the design of the stock intercooler bothered me some. the entry is great, but the exit is horrible. And the TB elbow is even worse. so i did this.... (welds are kinda sloppy, i was having a hard time stablizing the arc. Found out after my TIG torch had some major problems. time to upgrade!) __________________ what I have: 1985 Gs:12a All motor Drag car - 1973 Rx2: Play car What I had: 93 Touring: TRADED - 91 Coupe: TRADED - 90 GTU: RHD - 88 10AE: SOLD - 87 Base: SOLD - 86 Base: SOLD - 1985 GSLSE - 85 Gsl: SOLD - 80 Gs: TRADED - 1972 Rx2

03-15-2010, 02:14 PM	#2
sen2two KTEC Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (2) Posts: 642 Rep Power: 0	few more... __________________ what I have: 1985 Gs:12a All motor Drag car - 1973 Rx2: Play car What I had: 93 Touring: TRADED - 91 Coupe: TRADED - 90 GTU: RHD - 88 10AE: SOLD - 87 Base: SOLD - 86 Base: SOLD - 1985 GSLSE - 85 Gsl: SOLD - 80 Gs: TRADED - 1972 Rx2

03-15-2010, 02:14 PM	#3
sen2two KTEC Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (2) Posts: 642 Rep Power: 0	finished product... I did some "testing"... The intercooler made a HUGE difference. Throttle responce was VERY noticable. boost climbed much quicker. The entire powerband felt far better. I will be hitting a dyno at the end of this month to see what she makes. Im hoping for 240-250. __________________ what I have: 1985 Gs:12a All motor Drag car - 1973 Rx2: Play car What I had: 93 Touring: TRADED - 91 Coupe: TRADED - 90 GTU: RHD - 88 10AE: SOLD - 87 Base: SOLD - 86 Base: SOLD - 1985 GSLSE - 85 Gsl: SOLD - 80 Gs: TRADED - 1972 Rx2

03-15-2010, 05:06 PM	#5
sen2two KTEC Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (2) Posts: 642 Rep Power: 0	not exactly sure what you mean? __________________ what I have: 1985 Gs:12a All motor Drag car - 1973 Rx2: Play car What I had: 93 Touring: TRADED - 91 Coupe: TRADED - 90 GTU: RHD - 88 10AE: SOLD - 87 Base: SOLD - 86 Base: SOLD - 1985 GSLSE - 85 Gsl: SOLD - 80 Gs: TRADED - 1972 Rx2

03-16-2010, 12:59 AM	#9
vex RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Influx. iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,113 Rep Power: 19	Wow... You actually changed the flow pattern a lot by doing that simple modification (just by inspection). You no longer have turbulent flow right at the entrance into the throttle body which is why you feel more power. Having that sudden bend is better than stock as it reduces turbulence from the flow hitting a dead end wall before continuing down the hole. If you wanted even more power (though I doubt you'll need to do it) you could have the flow angle more slowly into the throttle body. This will help with the turbulence being reduced--you could also rough up the internal structure of the tubes that lead to the throttle body to disturb the laminar flow. This will help maintain airflow velocity. __________________ The Official FC Radiator Thread My Project Thread: Cerberus CCVT Virginia Rotary Group

03-15-2010, 06:39 PM	#6
88turboii destroy, rebuild, repeat Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Charleston, SC iTrader: (0) Posts: 395 Rep Power: 17	very cool. i think most people underestimate the tmic, location isnt really that bad for under 350whp. at speed, you get plenty of air flow Hell if you can weld like that, why not just build a completely custom IC? If you look at the stock IC, a lot of the scoop opening is wasted.. the opening is 12" tall, yet the IC is only 9". If youve seen the ARC tmic up close, it uses all 12" of the opening (12" x 12" core i believe) and the tubes are positioned horizontal instead of vertical. end tanks are on the sides. that way the air doesnt have to take two extra 90 degree turns like the stock IC. im sure you can find a 12x12 core and fab something up? they would sell like hot cakes too

03-16-2010, 10:01 PM	#10
firzen Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (2) Posts: 231 Rep Power: 17	That's the neatest intercooler modification for the stock TMIC I've seen in a while. I'd much rather see something like this done instead of all the work needed for an FM or VMIC.

03-17-2010, 02:47 AM	#12
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL iTrader: (5) Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 18	Well, it's not like he's welding cast "iron" now is he? Cast aluminum isn't that bad if you've got a TIG welder, just set up the wave balance to "clean" the cast out a little bit as you're welding, and use good rod. Honestly, if you've got a bit of time and some extra aluminium laying around, this would cost like $15 tops in rod/gas/electricity bill. (not including the metal pricing) __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!

03-17-2010, 02:12 PM	#15
Flash The Newbie Join Date: Nov 2009 iTrader: (0) Posts: 16 Rep Power: 0	Nice work. I don't think there's anything wrong with using what you've got and making it better, especially if the only real cost is a bit of effort. For your setup I think it's smart.