Thinking of water injection..any recommendations?

[dudemaaan]

Did you notice much change in AFR's with the methanol? And air temps? Does the decreased cooling inside the engine have any increase on knock? I was going to test mixtures of alcohol, but the water works so good and is free, makes me feel like there is little point. If I decide I want more power I just turn the knob on the boost controller clockwise.

[FC3S Murray]

here it goes..................awaiting Brian's response....

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by dudemaaan

Did you notice much change in AFR's with the methanol? And air temps? Does the decreased cooling inside the engine have any increase on knock? I was going to test mixtures of alcohol, but the water works so good and is free, makes me feel like there is little point. If I decide I want more power I just turn the knob on the boost controller clockwise.

I have zero knock in my set up anyway so that was harder to quantify but I can reduce the rate of W/M compared to just water as it seems to be more volatile. The power 100% goes up, its a big difference.

Note: the tests I was doing all keep everything the same, so it was just different mixtures & effects on performance.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by FC3S Murray

here it goes..................awaiting Brian's response....

Screw the internet nobodies mate

When you can say you know more than Sir Harry Ricardo, Frank Walker or Hugh McInnes then come talk to me any other "band aid" type comments are ALL you will find posted by no bodies, un qualified and opinionated wannabe engineers

The one thing I have found over many years is there are qualified people who know engines then there are the unqualified who work off conjecture, rumor, opinions and their own "feelings".

All of that is a waste of time, the only constant is peoples short memories and the amazing ability to forget what was discovered many many years ago

[FC3S Murray]

Alright guys I am almost ready to purchase my Snow Performance stage 1 kit.
I have a couple concerns/ ideas that I want to ask about and make sure my thinking is correct....

1) I have posted a ques on the other forum and Barry Bordes mentioned I should put 1 175ml/min nozzle PRE-turbo and 1 175ml/min post turbo by the throttle body bend. I am reluctant to go pre-turbo since I will be pushing only 15 psi....18 max and have read most big gains AND effectiveness of pre-turbo is at higher boost. Plus my turbo inlet duct is very short and my filter wont accomodate a nozzle...i really like my filter Check out my old engine bay attached pic and let me know what you think.


2) I want to instead of installing one 375 ml/min nozzle on my set up post-turbo and go with two 175 ml/sec nozzles opposite of each other in the bend before the throttle body on my intercooler piping. My thinking behind this is the smaller nozzles will atomize better then the 375ml/min nozzle at the pump 220 psi WHILE still supplying close to the same amount in a minute.

...is my thinking correct?


remember I originally wanted to run only water for knock suppresion BUT have found that 50/50 mix has the best of both worlds with little to no re-tune.

Thanks for the help guys.

[classicauto]

I like that location. You're correct about improved atomization on smaller nozzles vs. larger at least in this context.

Food for thought though, instead of going preturbo, you could go as close to the turbo outlet as possible which will take some load off the intercooler. But I think your idea will work awesome!

[dudemaaan]

I think one of the main advantages of running preturbo is due to the atomization that the water gets going through the compressor. The water is much easier to burn and can take the heat out of the combustion chamber easier then large water droplets. There is also evidence supporting preturbo extending the compressor map, which would only be an advantage once you start maxing the turbo out.

[FC3S Murray]

Originally Posted by classicauto

Food for thought though, instead of going preturbo, you could go as close to the turbo outlet as possible which will take some load off the intercooler. But I think your idea will work awesome!

I thought about that BUT my main concern of mounting the nozzles farther down stream from my TB is being located before my damn relief valve.

If I ever overboost I AT LEAST want my 50/50 mix still supplying the motor under these brief severe conditions...again hypathetical but at least some what safer then high boost with no WI That is one of the main reasons I do not want to go pre-turbo. However I do hope that the nozzle location in my prev picture is far enough away from the rotor chambers to let the meth "flash" with the water/air....



My last concern is going to be how to mount the 2 nozzles. I was originally going to mount them 180 degrees from each other BUT after reading some of Howard Coleman's posts, the 3 and 6 o'clock positions seem the best. Anyone have any input on this?

BTW, snow performance contacted me and told me that there is only a 5PSI differance in pressure at the nozzle of 2 175ml/min nozzles compared to 1 375ml/min nozzle. hmmmm, still.. slightly better atomization with 2 nozzles.

I think one of the main advantages of running preturbo is due to the atomization that the water gets going through the compressor. The water is much easier to burn and can take the heat out of the combustion chamber easier then large water droplets. There is also evidence supporting preturbo extending the compressor map, which would only be an advantage once you start maxing the turbo out.

I totally agree. I will only be pushing 15 psi on my 62-1 so I am no where close to maxing it out lol. I am very impressed by you D.I.Y. system. I am also excited to see how your fast reacting AIT does when I install my WI system.

[dudemaaan]

I don't think nozzle mounting position will matter a whole lot. I think distance will be more of a factor. Some people face the nozzles into the air stream, but only experimenting will tell if there is an advantage to this. As far as 3 o'clock and 6 o'clock I don't see how there would be much difference and wouldn't stress about it too much.

[FC3S Murray]

I am starting to wonder if 350ml/min is going to be enough 50/50 mix with my set-up? I know 350 ml/min of just water should be plenty to reduce knock BUT with 50/50 mix would I have too little water in the mix to beneficially reduce knock?

I want lower intake temps and some good knock protection.

[dudemaaan]

Obviously the more you run the more knock suppression and lower intake temps you'll get. It will also make a bit of a difference if your mixing 50/50 by volume or by weight. If by volume then you are still running more water then methanol. Your boost levels aren't really that high though, so you should be fine with that size nozzle and proper tuning.