Copper water seals?

sickofpistons · 03-02-2010, 09:11 PM

Just want to know if there is another alternative to the rubber or plastic water seals? Maybe copper seals for better reliability and fewer blowouts?
Just alot of questions stuck in my head that need answering, lol.

Max777 · 03-03-2010, 12:04 AM

I DID see a thread about some guy using copper wire for coolant seals on some junk engine, and they actually held up!

I couldn't find the post anymore, though.

***TitaniumTT*** · 03-03-2010, 01:08 AM

Pineapple offers a set, and there was rumor about a Viton o-ring from McMaster that fit...... don't think I would use it as a compression seal though.

classicauto · 03-03-2010, 09:56 AM

If the plates and water seal grooves are in good shape, the car doesn't get overheated (ie. the rest of the cooling system is sorted for the use of the car) and you don't put washer fluid in your radiator

the OEM's should last a very very long time.

I'm not aware of any actual copper ones, just the mentioned "heavy duty" versions. Personally, if you're toasting OEM coolant seals regularly, you'll likely have problesm with heavy duty ones because they are a symptom of another problem - not the cause.

sickofpistons · 03-03-2010, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicauto

If the plates and water seal grooves are in good shape, the car doesn't get overheated (ie. the rest of the cooling system is sorted for the use of the car) and you don't put washer fluid in your radiator

the OEM's should last a very very long time.

I'm not aware of any actual copper ones, just the mentioned "heavy duty" versions. Personally, if you're toasting OEM coolant seals regularly, you'll likely have problesm with heavy duty ones because they are a symptom of another problem - not the cause.

Im not tousting them regularly I was just wondering if they made a more reliable set? Are there any sites that offer them?

RETed · 03-03-2010, 02:40 PM

Why?
Are you having problems with the OEM stuff?
I've never had problems with the OEM stuff unless you:
1) Overheat the engine
2) Detonate the engine

What kind of power are you making?
Soft seals have been reliable in 400...500hp engines.
How much more power do you need???

I don't think used housing can handle higher levels of power / boost.
This almost requires BRAND NEW HOUSINGS (for tighter tolerance and less wear).

Last time I heard someone developing aftermarket seals, get in touch with banzaitoyota (I think) from the other forum - his made-from-the-same-stuff-they-use-in-nuclear-reactors came out to somewhere north of $1,000 PER SET.

-Ted

C. Ludwig · 03-03-2010, 03:36 PM

Like has already been said, if you're cooking seals you have and underlying problem. A seal failing is simply a symptom, it's not the disease. Aftermarket seals are poor fitting hype.

sickofpistons · 03-03-2010, 09:06 PM

Look people! I am NOT toasting seals so stop trying to toast me! I am going to school to study for engineering and was just WONDERING if there was such a thing!

DELETE THREAD

vex · 03-03-2010, 09:16 PM

I want copper water seals! Fuck if I could make them fit though...

Whizbang · 03-03-2010, 10:11 PM

straight copper = corrosion = bad

the plastic covered electrical wire from napa works tho (plastic coating prevents corrosion). Peejay has done this in his engines a few times and it works great and withstands heavy abuse.

sickofpistons · 03-03-2010, 10:53 PM

Would you have to have the motor dowled, and would you have clearance issues with them. (IF THERE WAS SUCH A THING)

sickofpistons · 03-03-2010, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickofpistons

Would you have to have the motor dowled, and would you have clearance issues with them. (IF THERE WAS SUCH A THING)

With the seals from pineapple racing?

proz07 · 03-03-2010, 11:02 PM

We use something similar in jet engines turbine bearing sections they are ONE time use metal crush gaskets. They take literaly 30-45 min to torque down correctly not a big deal BUT I believe they would be a horrible application for this as the rotor housings can flex ever so slightly on higher hp/rpm applications. This alone will cause this type of hard seal to fail in short order i do believe. They are made of stainless steel as well fyi, look just like an o-ring just metal.
z

sickofpistons · 03-03-2010, 11:04 PM

This is what pineappleracing offers.

Detailed Description
This is our exclusive Heavy Duty Water Seal kit for the 3-rotor 20B. We tested these seals for over 7 years in numerous street and track cars before offering them to our customers. They have proven to be a significant upgrade over the stock water seals. We use them in all our 5-year warranty motors. Also, these seals are re-usable if you need to reopen the motor to freshen it, as long as the mileage is not too high or the engine too overheated. In other words, if you make a mistake and blow up your engine or perhaps improperly clearance the seals or whatever, these seals can be removed, allowed to "rest" for about 30 minutes and be reused when you put the engine back together. Stock water seals must be disposed of when freshening an engine, even with just a couple heat cycles. Kit includes the water jacket o-rings, front cover o-ring (and backup washer, if needed), dowel o-rings, rear stationary gear o-ring and oil pedistal o-rings.

I really just wanted to know if there where such a thing as copper seals, and if they where any kind of an upgrade.

vex · 03-04-2010, 03:38 PM

Honestly if you want to you could just use spring energized stainless steel O-ring.

It's overkill and you'll spend more money on it than other people, but you won't ever have to worry about blowing one unless the casing falls away.

03-02-2010, 09:11 PM	#1
sickofpistons Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Jackson, TN iTrader: (1) Posts: 72 Rep Power: 0	Copper water seals? Just want to know if there is another alternative to the rubber or plastic water seals? Maybe copper seals for better reliability and fewer blowouts? Just alot of questions stuck in my head that need answering, lol.

03-03-2010, 12:04 AM	#2
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL iTrader: (5) Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 18	I DID see a thread about some guy using copper wire for coolant seals on some junk engine, and they actually held up! I couldn't find the post anymore, though. __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!

03-03-2010, 01:08 AM	#3
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Pineapple offers a set, and there was rumor about a Viton o-ring from McMaster that fit...... don't think I would use it as a compression seal though. __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

03-03-2010, 03:36 PM	#7
C. Ludwig Rotary Masochist Join Date: May 2008 Location: Floyds Knobs, IN iTrader: (5) Posts: 494 Rep Power: 17	Like has already been said, if you're cooking seals you have and underlying problem. A seal failing is simply a symptom, it's not the disease. Aftermarket seals are poor fitting hype. __________________ _______________________________________________ *One stop Haltech, AEM, Syvecs shopping. Installation and tuning.* http://www.lms-efi.com *Free support. Drop us an email.* chris@lms-efi.com 502-515-7482 Facebook @LMS-EFI

03-03-2010, 09:16 PM	#9
vex RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Influx. iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,113 Rep Power: 19	I want copper water seals! Fuck if I could make them fit though... __________________ The Official FC Radiator Thread My Project Thread: Cerberus CCVT Virginia Rotary Group

03-03-2010, 09:06 PM	#8
sickofpistons Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Jackson, TN iTrader: (1) Posts: 72 Rep Power: 0	Look people! I am NOT toasting seals so stop trying to toast me! I am going to school to study for engineering and was just WONDERING if there was such a thing! DELETE THREAD

03-03-2010, 10:11 PM	#10
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	straight copper = corrosion = bad the plastic covered electrical wire from napa works tho (plastic coating prevents corrosion). Peejay has done this in his engines a few times and it works great and withstands heavy abuse. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

03-03-2010, 10:53 PM	#11
sickofpistons Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Jackson, TN iTrader: (1) Posts: 72 Rep Power: 0	Would you have to have the motor dowled, and would you have clearance issues with them. (IF THERE WAS SUCH A THING)

03-03-2010, 11:02 PM	#13
proz07 Needing a new tow rig. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: AR iTrader: (0) Posts: 245 Rep Power: 17	We use something similar in jet engines turbine bearing sections they are ONE time use metal crush gaskets. They take literaly 30-45 min to torque down correctly not a big deal BUT I believe they would be a horrible application for this as the rotor housings can flex ever so slightly on higher hp/rpm applications. This alone will cause this type of hard seal to fail in short order i do believe. They are made of stainless steel as well fyi, look just like an o-ring just metal. z

03-03-2010, 11:04 PM	#14
sickofpistons Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Jackson, TN iTrader: (1) Posts: 72 Rep Power: 0	This is what pineappleracing offers. Detailed Description This is our exclusive Heavy Duty Water Seal kit for the 3-rotor 20B. We tested these seals for over 7 years in numerous street and track cars before offering them to our customers. They have proven to be a significant upgrade over the stock water seals. We use them in all our 5-year warranty motors. Also, these seals are re-usable if you need to reopen the motor to freshen it, as long as the mileage is not too high or the engine too overheated. In other words, if you make a mistake and blow up your engine or perhaps improperly clearance the seals or whatever, these seals can be removed, allowed to "rest" for about 30 minutes and be reused when you put the engine back together. Stock water seals must be disposed of when freshening an engine, even with just a couple heat cycles. Kit includes the water jacket o-rings, front cover o-ring (and backup washer, if needed), dowel o-rings, rear stationary gear o-ring and oil pedistal o-rings. I really just wanted to know if there where such a thing as copper seals, and if they where any kind of an upgrade.

03-04-2010, 03:38 PM	#15
vex RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Influx. iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,113 Rep Power: 19	Honestly if you want to you could just use spring energized stainless steel O-ring. It's overkill and you'll spend more money on it than other people, but you won't ever have to worry about blowing one unless the casing falls away. __________________ The Official FC Radiator Thread My Project Thread: Cerberus CCVT Virginia Rotary Group Last edited by Phoenix7; 03-08-2010 at 05:28 PM..