Version 3 NA 20b Start-Up

gmonsen · 04-26-2013, 08:25 AM

I am close to finishing version 3 of my NA 20b motor. New design is 3 plug per rotor, individual housing oiling and coolant systems, scalloped rotors, ITB's, and unique secondary throttle butterflies at the larger secondary intake ports built into the intake flange. This is designed to increase torque production at lower rpm while still producing the same top end power. We just started the motor up for the first time without the new intake system, just to bed in the motor. Should have the new intake system on in a few weeks.

G

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/fd2...R0053.mp4.html

http://s254.photobucket.com/user/fd2...R0052.mp4.html

gmonsen · 04-26-2013, 08:34 AM

Here are a couple of pictures of the motor.

G

This shows the modified alternator setup...

Here you can see the coolant and oiling hard pipes (polished aluminum) going to each rotor housing...

Here you can see the 6 Bosch coils that spark the leading and trailing 1 plugs...

Here's the top 3 LS2 coils that fire the trailing 2 plugs...

***TitaniumTT*** · 04-26-2013, 08:39 AM

Those are LS1 coils

WE3RX7 · 04-26-2013, 08:46 AM

Why the different coils for the trailing 2 plugs?

Interesting build though, who built the engine?

gmonsen · 04-26-2013, 02:07 PM

TitaniumTT... Yep, Brian, I misstated it. They were going to be LS2's, but we subbed in the 1's.

WE3RX7... I had the 6 Bosch coils and Logan at Defined Autoworks chose the LS1's. Its one of the few things I didn't have a hand in and can't tell you why he chose them.

G

diabolical1 · 04-26-2013, 07:27 PM

for some reason hearing this animal breathe had 2 initial effects on me. first, I was speechless (but that requires no explanation). the second was a bit more peculiar, but a song came to mind ... oh hell ... it's only 3 minutes and change ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoHuxpa4h48

RICE RACING · 04-26-2013, 07:46 PM

who did the 3 plug conversion for you and what ECU you running?

how much HP will it make you think?

downloading vids now, tissues on the ready

gmonsen · 04-26-2013, 08:40 PM

diabolical1... Ha-ha. Now, that's creative as hell. Thanks. This is literally the start up and I actually expect it will sound much better when we get it done. Just the sound of the ITB's sucking should add a bit...

riceracing... Logan Carswell at Defined Autoworks did the 3 plug conversion. I'm still running my Microtech Ltx12 with an outboard x6 Igniter added for the extra plugs. I'm running the leading and trailing 1's with no split. As to hp, I don't know, of course, until its on the dyno, but would guess 375+ to the wheels.

Most of the design changes I've made were intended to improve torque at lower rpm, including the dual path exhaust pipes and the secondary intake butterflies. I'm handicapped on max power, because I didn't want to dry sump the motor and go with ceramic seals. So, I have an 8500 rpm nominal redline. I think I could pull 400 if I ran to 9500 rpm. But, again, we'll just have to wait and see. Modified Magazine is covering a test & tune day at VIR on Monday, May 20th and in addition to track testing we'll have it on the dynos down there. We will have already done some pulls, but the motor should have close to 1500 miles on it by then and the numbers should be pretty stable.

We're also testing a stock FD, a modded twins FD, a 20b turbo and a 4 rotor NA. Should be very interesting to see how they all handle and what the lap times are.

G

hades · 04-26-2013, 09:50 PM

Is this going to be supercharged like your sig says?

gmonsen · 04-26-2013, 11:24 PM

Hades... No. Separate project and way behind on it. This motor is the 1st one in my sig. It runs three 55mm ITB's. The supercharger project is to build a similarly "linear" power delivery motor to my NA, but aiming for 500 whp instead of a bit below 400 on the NA motor. I also like the whine of a supercharger. However, I am no longer sure I want or need more power than what I have or will have in a few weeks.

G

gmonsen · 04-29-2013, 07:21 AM

Update... So, tomorrow we'll have the new intake and ITB's on. So, we'll get another start up by end of week with the completed motor and exhaust. Should be good.

G

RedR1 · 04-29-2013, 12:05 PM

Please do post up the pix/info. Is it the ITB kit the one that Logan sells, or something you are custom fabbing up? I will definitely be keeping an eye on this.

Loving it, man!!

gmonsen · 04-29-2013, 01:48 PM

RedR1... Its the same type of throttle bodies, but, in addition to the original butterflies in the throttle bodies themselves, we are putting a second set of butterflies in the intake flange right at the secondary intake ports. This was an idea I got from my LT5 motor to help with low speed torque and to reduce gas consumption.

G

toRn · 04-29-2013, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmonsen

This was an idea I got from my LT5 motor to help with low speed torque and to reduce gas consumption.

G

you have an LT5 motor?

gmonsen · 04-29-2013, 03:07 PM

Yes. I have a 1990 ZR1 and love that motor. Imho, its the best V8 ever built in America. Nothing like it before or since.

G

04-26-2013, 08:25 AM	#1
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	Version 3 NA 20b Start-Up I am close to finishing version 3 of my NA 20b motor. New design is 3 plug per rotor, individual housing oiling and coolant systems, scalloped rotors, ITB's, and unique secondary throttle butterflies at the larger secondary intake ports built into the intake flange. This is designed to increase torque production at lower rpm while still producing the same top end power. We just started the motor up for the first time without the new intake system, just to bed in the motor. Should have the new intake system on in a few weeks. G http://s254.photobucket.com/user/fd2...R0053.mp4.html http://s254.photobucket.com/user/fd2...R0052.mp4.html __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

04-26-2013, 08:34 AM	#2
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	Here are a couple of pictures of the motor. G This shows the modified alternator setup... Here you can see the coolant and oiling hard pipes (polished aluminum) going to each rotor housing... Here you can see the 6 Bosch coils that spark the leading and trailing 1 plugs... Here's the top 3 LS2 coils that fire the trailing 2 plugs... __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

04-26-2013, 08:39 AM	#3
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Those are LS1 coils __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

04-26-2013, 02:07 PM	#5
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	TitaniumTT... Yep, Brian, I misstated it. They were going to be LS2's, but we subbed in the 1's. WE3RX7... I had the 6 Bosch coils and Logan at Defined Autoworks chose the LS1's. Its one of the few things I didn't have a hand in and can't tell you why he chose them. G __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

04-26-2013, 07:46 PM	#7
RICE RACING Don Mega Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Utopia iTrader: (0) Posts: 1,688 Rep Power: 17	who did the 3 plug conversion for you and what ECU you running? how much HP will it make you think? downloading vids now, tissues on the ready __________________ www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration

04-26-2013, 08:46 AM	#4
WE3RX7 RCC Addict Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: VA iTrader: (1) Posts: 1,812 Rep Power: 18	Why the different coils for the trailing 2 plugs? Interesting build though, who built the engine?

04-26-2013, 08:40 PM	#8
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	diabolical1... Ha-ha. Now, that's creative as hell. Thanks. This is literally the start up and I actually expect it will sound much better when we get it done. Just the sound of the ITB's sucking should add a bit... riceracing... Logan Carswell at Defined Autoworks did the 3 plug conversion. I'm still running my Microtech Ltx12 with an outboard x6 Igniter added for the extra plugs. I'm running the leading and trailing 1's with no split. As to hp, I don't know, of course, until its on the dyno, but would guess 375+ to the wheels. Most of the design changes I've made were intended to improve torque at lower rpm, including the dual path exhaust pipes and the secondary intake butterflies. I'm handicapped on max power, because I didn't want to dry sump the motor and go with ceramic seals. So, I have an 8500 rpm nominal redline. I think I could pull 400 if I ran to 9500 rpm. But, again, we'll just have to wait and see. Modified Magazine is covering a test & tune day at VIR on Monday, May 20th and in addition to track testing we'll have it on the dynos down there. We will have already done some pulls, but the motor should have close to 1500 miles on it by then and the numbers should be pretty stable. We're also testing a stock FD, a modded twins FD, a 20b turbo and a 4 rotor NA. Should be very interesting to see how they all handle and what the lap times are. G __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II Last edited by gmonsen; 04-26-2013 at 08:44 PM..

04-26-2013, 09:50 PM	#9
hades Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Freedom Land iTrader: (0) Posts: 316 Rep Power: 17	Is this going to be supercharged like your sig says? __________________ This is going to tear

04-26-2013, 11:24 PM	#10
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	Hades... No. Separate project and way behind on it. This motor is the 1st one in my sig. It runs three 55mm ITB's. The supercharger project is to build a similarly "linear" power delivery motor to my NA, but aiming for 500 whp instead of a bit below 400 on the NA motor. I also like the whine of a supercharger. However, I am no longer sure I want or need more power than what I have or will have in a few weeks. G __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

04-29-2013, 07:21 AM	#11
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	Update... So, tomorrow we'll have the new intake and ITB's on. So, we'll get another start up by end of week with the completed motor and exhaust. Should be good. G __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

04-29-2013, 12:05 PM	#12
RedR1 Brokeback Power! Join Date: Feb 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 290 Rep Power: 17	Please do post up the pix/info. Is it the ITB kit the one that Logan sells, or something you are custom fabbing up? I will definitely be keeping an eye on this. Loving it, man!!

04-29-2013, 01:48 PM	#13
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	RedR1... Its the same type of throttle bodies, but, in addition to the original butterflies in the throttle bodies themselves, we are putting a second set of butterflies in the intake flange right at the secondary intake ports. This was an idea I got from my LT5 motor to help with low speed torque and to reduce gas consumption. G __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

04-29-2013, 03:07 PM	#15
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	Yes. I have a 1990 ZR1 and love that motor. Imho, its the best V8 ever built in America. Nothing like it before or since. G __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

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