what aftermarket apex seal would you choose?

[730RWHP12A]

what apex seal would you choose?

choices? below, and why you would choose them.. thanks

Atkins seals

ALS seals

RA super seals

Goopy seals

PTS seals

Hurley seals (not sure if Emmon is still selling them)

here are the specifics....

on a budget, poor tuner so there will be a possibility of lean conditions/ detonation during tune, cheap pre-mix, rotor housings are not the best, boosted application, race gas, 30 pounds of boost, drag racing, not daily driven, not trying to go 100,000 miles before rebuild

[RICE RACING]

I have many pictured on my site after testing more of these and selling more than anyone else in the (especially ceramics).

The hurley by far is the worst, soft and housing rape combined LOL. Seen this many times myself fist hand, never ever seen a seal chamfer wear as bad as these or rape a housing as bad in short time.

PTS are a total donkey! banana city along with housing rapage. Lost count how many people come crying to me about being coned into buying their shit, promised the world and delivered an atlas.

SCR = shit WORST GARBAGE ON EARTH, PROBABLY SOLAR SYSTEM!

Most of the fence post seals are like that, its only the RA that I have seen RAPE ROTOR HOUSINGS!.

Be prepared for lots of 'opinions', there was a RAPE thread on gayclub about ALS from one of their biggest supporters lol it got taken down lets be honest all of them are shit, .

[RICE RACING]

Gayer than aids

[Rotary Evolution]

i've personally run the Goopy seals up to 13.5:1 AFR at 500whp(not saying a whole lot but most seals would have failed in this scenario), the seals did not bend or crack. it was only for a few dyno runs before i noticed the pump dying and AFRs spiking but they handled it just fine. 91 pump gas with 50/50 water AI spraying only about 500cc/min at 24psi.

i've never needed to put them through more stress than that but dozens of installed sets floating around that have not failed so far(i have never had a set warp or break or even gouge the housings is what i'm saying). they don't push selling their seals all that much so you won't hear a whole lot about them.

but take my opinion with some bias, since i am one of their resellers. if you do choose them i can get you a 25 bucks off off retail with shipping included.

i would not recommend Atkins seals in anything other than a stock turbo or n/a engine, even that is pushing it. i've had many sets break over the years even under very light detonation cycles. they are weaker than OEM at handling detonation but in the event a seal or 2 does fail the damage is minimal. if you don't mind some possible damage and love ripping engines apart i suppose they are fine, and also the cheapest option. i only use atkins seals now on n/a engines since they last the longest.

[RICE RACING]

engine pulled down for an inspection recently as it started running a bit rough. It has done less than 10,000kays and was running stihl premix at 100/1. Housings were new when it was built and so were the seals, 2mm scr.

[Rotary Evolution]

well, i have seen just about every seal out there cause similar wear patterns to that but not regularly, the reasons why some seals gouge/chatter while others of the same brand do not isn't quite clear.

i've even seen the harder OEM and Atkins seals cause gouging and chatter patterns on housings. sometimes it depends on air filtration, other times surface prep of the housings and other times lubrication or seal loading issues.

i haven't actually come across a Goopy seal set yet that caused excessive wear but i've only been running them for the past few years.

ceramics and carbon seals are obviously the best at preventing housing wear but they're not exactly the best for boosted/detonation situations. even the toughest ceramic to date is still just shy of the shear strength of the cast iron OEM seals. for endurance n/a applications i usually try to push ceramic, though most people don't like the price tag.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by Rotary Evolution

well, i have seen just about every seal out there cause similar wear patterns to that but not regularly, the reasons why some seals gouge/chatter while others of the same brand do not isn't quite clear.

i've even seen the harder OEM and Atkins seals cause gouging and chatter patterns on housings. sometimes it depends on air filtration, other times surface prep of the housings and other times lubrication or seal loading issues.

i haven't actually come across a Goopy seal set yet that caused excessive wear but i've only been running them for the past few years.

ceramics and carbon seals are obviously the best at preventing housing wear but they're not exactly the best for boosted/detonation situations. even the toughest ceramic to date is still just shy of the shear strength of the cast iron OEM seals. for endurance n/a applications i usually try to push ceramic, though most people don't like the price tag.

^ Most workshops & individual people do not like the total destruction either
I've sold hundreds of these from both known vendors to every self professed 'name' here and many around the world, and they ALL destroy housings, plates, turbo's at the slightest hint of 'non ideal conditions'

[Rotary Evolution]

ceramic is by far the most destructive. like tossing a handful of metal into the running engine, it just tears up everything.

but it's quite difficult to break them in naturally aspirated engines. or any seal aside from carbon for that matter. the seals/housings should outlast the end plates.

[WankelsRevenge]

On the subject of seals, what does anyone know about the RA seals? They rebuilt my motor and I was told it had all RA cryo seals. Should I just expect this to be on the apex seals, or can I hope they also did the whole engine with them? O and how good are they really? Its a ported N/A 6port right now, but everyone that's had anything to do with this engine has told me they were building it to boost it, Im just hesitant to put and amount of boost on the stock "high" compression rotors.

[Rotary Evolution]

there is no indestructable apex, side or corner seal. if they hold up then you will crack an iron, if you pin the engine the seals will warp or eat a side/corner seal. there is no way to build an engine to handle detonation more than in short bursts.

RA seals seem to be one of the most popular choices of "banana" seals. meaning they will warp under excessive EGTs if everything else survives.

[FC Zach]

I've run RA seals for 6 years with hard driving and excessively high RPMs (I beat the hell out of this motor). My car was nowhere near perfect at the time, I built it while in highshool with the help of a friend. It's a carbed 13b 6port and has run in both rich and lean conditions. The engine had a failure in 2010 that I didn't realize till returning home from a B3R trip, I had a blown coolant seal and destroyed bearings. With all this extra play in the motor the seals held up and made the 300 mile trip, thankfully getting me home. I took the motor apart and even with the excess play from the bearings crapping out on me the seals still looked great and the rotor housings looked ok considering what had happened.

I had already purchased new seals and a local friend of mine wanted to use my old RA seals in one of his projects, still to this day I believe that motor is still running.

I'm a fan of these seals and recommend them

[PSI]

RA seals here to date. I haven't managed to bend or break any yet, but I can't say what housing wear is like until I pull down an engine that's been pushed hard.

I saw an FD engine recently that had done 5000km with Als seals and both the housings and seals still looked like new. It didn't have a heap of hp though - 330rwhp and 100:1 TTS premix. I also saw an SCR seal from an engine that had done 2000km with even less hp and what a mess - it was half worn away, more so at one end, and had a bad flat spot on the leading edge.

I'm keen to give Goopy seals a go, by all accounts they work well. It sounds like Goopy and Als are similar material.

[WankelsRevenge]

Hmm, well with everything Im hearing im leaning more and more into turboing my 6port

[Rotary Evolution]

with any FC engine if you plan on pushing over 350whp i suggest studding the engine and run one of the banana seals mentioned here.

most all of the seals work just fine which are ALS/Goopy/RA in no particular order. i only have personal experience with Goopy and it has been positive(which led me to being one of their distributors).

[RX7Elmatatan]

Super seal we use it in all our car