Turbo guidance, PLEASE! Im Lost.

[Rotaryrocket FC]

Alright, I have a project on my hands and I dont even know where to begin.
Im building a Street Ported 13BT and I would like to modify the turbo system, as well as the components involved with that, obviously.

I guess Im already bored with a factory Tll, even after owning 3 N/A's. (Ive had a bit of racing backround since the day I got my license. Im now 21 yrs old.)
Objectives to the car:
I would like it to be somewhat streetable and decent on gas mileage. When I say decent on gas mileage, I mean 12mpg would be okay.
I will be autocrossing but more so, road course racing it, so power coming on late is okay to a point. Basically boost coming in as late as 4.5K is fine with me.

I need some guidance from you experienced guys here. I know I have alot to learn but I cannot wait to get started on my first Tll build. Im a complete n00b to modifying a turbo system. Heres the things going for the build.
Im having my 13BT street ported and the target snail id like to run is a T04R.
With sooo many engine management systems out there, im overwelmed with what to go with.

Things I would like to learn more about:
*Engine management systems
*Ignition, Oil, and Fuel upgrade tips
*Tuning responsabilities
*A/R ratio's fitting to my needs
*Etc.

Thanks so much for the help in advance guys! I really need something to guide me in the right direction, so it looks somewhat like I know what Im doing here.

-Dale

[Rotaryrocket FC]

No turbo guru's here?

[Rotary_Rocket_87]

I have been researching alot because I also plan to run a T04 (but it's a B). The only advice I can give you is on engine management. Having read quite a bit on this subject I think the Microtech ECU is the most rotary freindly. They can provide you with harness that will be the simplest to install using the factory sensors ect. and they also have a very clear wiring diagram to show you which wires go where. The base maps that they provide are well done and need only a few tweaks here and there, so tuning should be easier. I hope I could help, and if I have said anything that isn't accurate I hope someone with better knowledge will correct me.

[Apac tii]

As far as engine management goes I would suggest a Haltech E8 or E11v2 I personally have a E6X. I have a full list of my mods on this website http://designengineeringworks.com/index.php just to give you an idea of things that can be done it is listed under project cars.

[Phoenix7]

I went with a hybrid for simplicity. Check my sig for my turbo swap.

As far an engine management: I went with the haltech e6x also. Comes with all the wiring needed to rewire the whole car. The newest FC will be 17 years old and after all that time you know you're going to be better off rewiring the whole thing than relying on old wiring with NEW management (think about it, you're spending over 1K on an ECU, you might as well go all out).

[Phoenix7]

your first step is to choose the turbo. Once you're 100% sure on what turbo to go with you can figure out about fuel.

[Boostmaniac]

I almost want to say go with the GT35R seeing as it would be an excellent choice for road racing.

But more importantly...

What is your power goal and are there any racing restrictions in your class?

Answer these first, and the rest of us can help you come up with a plan.

(I am building a similar machine except I am doing a bridgeport.)

[J-Rat]

Originally Posted by Rotaryrocket FC

No turbo guru's here?

What can I do for you?

*Engine management systems

I have tuned Megasquirt, Microtech, PFC, Haltech, and SAFCs (if you want to call that tuning). In my humble opinion, Haltech is the best bang for the buck. I caution against the E6X because of the different reluctor used in that model. Get the E8 or E11 if you can afford it, or an E6k which is what I use.

*Ignition, Oil, and Fuel upgrade tips

Asking about ignition is going to get you a hundred different answers. I was running a single Jacobs Pro Pak on JUST the leading stock coils. Made 497 wheel. I also did this on a single Walbro pump something a lot of "gurus" here will tell you cant be done (they might also tell you I spray alchohol, dont listen to them.. Lies I tell ya!!!) My ignition is now a Jacobs FC1000. Dont need the 2000 because the Haltech already has a rev limiter. I also run 890 primaries and 1680 Ford Secondaries.

I could go on forever about timing, but I run crazy advances. My engine builder saw the map I was using once and about passed out. Probably shouldnt listen to me on timing...

*Tuning responsabilities

Not sure what you mean here.....

*A/R ratio's fitting to my needs

Yet another topic of debate. I run mid to low 11s at full boost with a little lean out in the spool up area, but I also run alot of timing. Some people will disagree, some will agree. At the end of the day, its all up to what you. I also run an MSD Knock Box that lets me know when knock is starting. Pretty handy tool if you ask me!

Let me know what other questions you have.

Rat

[RETed]

The problem with the original post is that it's too general, and it would take volumes of text to explain thoroughly.

On top of that, "tuning" is different from person to person.
So there are tuning philosophies that differ from tuner to tuner.
Same goes for turbo sizing...

In general, I normal ask HOW MUCH you're willing to spend and what your power goals are.
Since you mentioned what kinda power you're looking for, you still haven't mentioned how much you're willing to spend?

A GT35R is a nice turbo, but it almost requires a custom turbo exhaust manifold (due to the T3 turbine, unless you go with a custom T4 turbine), and it's on the pricier side when it comes to turbos.
You mention autocrossing and road racing...do they have rules governing modifications?
If you're talking SCCA autocross, modifying the turbos automatically puts you in MOD!

Then we need to take into consideration of your tire set-up...
Most "street" tires cannot take more than 300 - 350hp.
Thus, trying to make more than 400 is really a waste of time.
400hp+ will require slicks to put the power to the ground, or you're going to end up just smoking the tires.
You can argue traction control, but that's a band-aid fix when you can just lower the power levels; less power is always a good choice, cause it lessens stress to the drivetrain and cooling systems.

See where this is going?


-Ted

[Rotaryrocket FC]

Wow, thanks guys. I really appreciate it!

I haven't checked this forum in a while because i completely forgot about my thread.... oops.

Well Id like to make somewhere in the ballpark of 400whp, if not more, reliably. I know my post is pretty vague, but basically what I was looking for is people that may have a similar, or general setup with some intel to what I should do.


Im willing to spend the money to make it happen, and I wont cut corners. Im not in a huge hurry to get the car done, I just want to reach my goal and do it up as nicely as I can.

[J-Rat]

You have a plethora of turbo choices now if around 400+ is your goal. You can go cheap and try 60-1 or T-61. I made 407 wheel at like 13 pounds on the T-61 and 490 at 25 on the same turbo. As you can see, that turbo was maxed, or probably being over maxed because of the reduction in gains with large increases in boost. 15-18 would be my target boost for that car in the "efficient range" that keeps the snail from putting too much heat into the air. I run a 67mm now, but havent seen any appreciable gains from it which I attribute to my stuffy 2.5 inch catback.

If you want to go spendy you can get pretty much the GT series starting at the GT35 and on up. Now its just a decision of how much peak versus average HP do you want. Also remember that the BB series are water and oil cooled for MUCH BETTER turbo life and some slight spool gains. Plan on well over $1k to play with those turbos.

If 4500 is acceptable for spool level then go GT40 or 42. Then you have the Holset family of turbos if you like, or Turbonetics turbos. Dont get HKS, its just repackaged garrett stuff thats marked up like 2 thousand bucks. Stick to T-4 style and you should be wide open for 400 hp.

Rat

[Rotaryrocket FC]

The GT35 and 45 are both quite expensive.
The T04R is a bigger trim. Ill be buying the Garrett T04R, which isnt as well built as a HKS, but will work just as well, as I am told.
I havent researched anything on a 60-1 yet.
What are the benefits from a T04R to the 60-1?

[J-Rat]

IIRC the 60-1 is in the T04 family.

[RETed]

Originally Posted by Rotaryrocket FC

The GT35 and 45 are both quite expensive.

I dunno if this is a typo, but a "GT45" is way too big for most 13B's.
In this particular application, it is way too big.
GT40 is okay.
GT42 is starting to get big but still doable...but it's overkill for "just 400".

The T04R is a bigger trim.

Than a GT35? Yes.
Than a GT40? It's in the range of a "small" GT40.

Ill be buying the Garrett T04R, which isnt as well built as a HKS, but will work just as well, as I am told.

HKS = Garrett Japan
To imply HKS is "better built" than Garrett doesn't make any sense.
I'd be careful of those HKS bullet nuts though - dunno if HKS still uses them on their T04R?


-Ted