stranded again what gives? ideas

atsronnyats · 09-21-2010, 01:05 AM

so if my attachments work you will see from the fsm what im talking about....remember NA

1. on position no voltage at pump wiring harness (R0-3)...in yellow
note: i know two top supply voltage--- bottom two fuel level sensor

2. From FSM section 4A-74 **NA** when checking voltage at fuel pump relay...
a. ON position checked out
b. ig sw Starting no voltage from Fc which is "fuel pump switch"
c. failed to check (no time) with measuring plate open

until this point i was going to as you know rewire the fuel pump i have the materials and im in a holding pattern suggestions guys based on 1-2 info above

My5ABaby · 09-21-2010, 08:21 AM

Your fuel pump won't have power unless that car is running or you jumper a connector in the engine bay.

Quote:

To run the pump, you will need to jump the diagnostic connector at the passenger front shock tower. It's a yellow plug with two connections and you can jump it with as small jumper lead or even a paper clip.

Do that, you'll hear it running if it is. I still vote check the compression.

NoDOHC · 09-21-2010, 07:08 PM

Actually, I had similar symptoms to this except for a completely different setup. It turned out to be the fuel pressure regulator. I checked compression and had 75psi bounces front and rear, so I knew that I needed to check fuel pressure.

I agree with My5ABaby, you should look at compression. I know for a fact that bad compression will cause the symptoms that you describe. So will bad coolant seals.

If I was helping you I would do the following in the following order:

Get long-hosed compression gauge, remove check valve, install in front rotor leading plug hole. Get friend to crank engine - verify consistent bounces at at least 50 psi. If you have a low face, it will misfire, but will still start. Re-verify compression with engine hot.

If compression is good, install fuel pressure gauge in the supply line to the engine.
Verify about 32-35 psi at idle and 42 psi at WOT. With engine warm, floor gas pedal and verify that fuel pressure maintains 42 psi at rev limiter.

If fuel pressure is good, check for vacuum leaks by starting a spraying starting fluid, pressurizing intake with shopvac and towel and checking for leaks with soap or any other means of testing for vacuum leaks that your mind can imagine.

If no vacuum leaks, verify ignition timing with timing light.

Verify all sensors per fsm.

Check for pressure in coolant system, no strange symptoms with temp gauge, etc. Attempt removing radiator cap while running (using a rag and being careful) before shutting off to verify that the restart issue is still present).

Scratch my head.

My5ABaby · 09-22-2010, 08:03 AM

75psi is pretty low. I'd expect hot start issues at that point.

atsronnyats · 09-22-2010, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My5ABaby

Your fuel pump won't have power unless that car is running or you jumper a connector in the engine bay.

using this procedure was able to get the voltage no problem there....
pulled pump replaced works well.... turns out i still had the original one i pulled the screen looked good

My5ABaby · 09-22-2010, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atsronnyats

using this procedure was able to get the voltage no problem there....
pulled pump replaced works well.... turns out i still had the original one i pulled the screen looked good

Btw, it may help to make your sentences a bit more coherent.

If I'm understanding correctly you're saying your car still had the original pump and the in tank filter looks good.

It's normal to still have the original pump. They're pretty reliable. The in tank filter could look good and still be clogged. I still say check the compression...

NoDOHC · 09-23-2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My5ABaby

75psi is pretty low. I'd expect hot start issues at that point.

I should clarify, this is with a long-hose piston engine compression gauge with the check valve out. it runs about 135-140psi with the check valve in - this is the highest compression that I have seen from an 8.2:1 rotary.

With an in-port compression gauge I get 125 psi bounces (9.2 bar).

If you turn the front pulley partway through a compression stroke and release it, the engine will rotate backwards.

The long hose compression gauge adds enough volume that the compression reading does not match the engine compression, it is still a decent estimate though.

45 - 50 psi bounces with a long hose gauge is adequate to start the engine.

atsronnyats · 09-24-2010, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My5ABaby

Btw, it may help to make your sentences a bit more coherent.

If I'm understanding correctly you're saying your car still had the original pump and the in tank filter looks good.

It's normal to still have the original pump. They're pretty reliable. The in tank filter could look good and still be clogged. I still say check the compression...

nah sir...

I'm saying that I replayed the second pump with the original one. When I had the problem the first time I purchased and installed an aftermarket pump. It became defective and I have now reinstalled the original pump and its working.

btw checked compression checked out. I now own a compression tester. lol

atsronnyats · 09-24-2010, 09:43 PM

1. Alright guys, got the car running better by setting the timing as per procedure from FSM.

2. I also adjusted the TPS sensor using multimeter and this also helped alot.

3.. I wanted to go threw threw with the idle speed mixture setting procedure but i have two questions/comments
a. i have no response from variable resistor what so ever (when adjusting) and would like to know if you all had any ideas about the reason for that. Just so you all know i did take it off and verified the resistance across both circuits and it checks out.
b. My second question also pertains the FSM procedure. The first step in the procedure is to attach a jumper wire to the "initial coupler set." My question is where is it. upon searching the issue some people post its next to the coolant reservoir. According to the FSM photo this would seam correct but the photo also shows the battery inches away. I haven't seen and fc3s with a coolant reservoir in this position and there is no coupler to speak of in this suggested position (next to accumulator/drier). having said that, I have to assume the "initial coupler set" is the green plug next the dianostic plug and the leading coils. thanks for clearing this up in advance

09-21-2010, 07:08 PM	#18
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin iTrader: (1) Posts: 855 Rep Power: 17	Actually, I had similar symptoms to this except for a completely different setup. It turned out to be the fuel pressure regulator. I checked compression and had 75psi bounces front and rear, so I knew that I needed to check fuel pressure. I agree with My5ABaby, you should look at compression. I know for a fact that bad compression will cause the symptoms that you describe. So will bad coolant seals. If I was helping you I would do the following in the following order: Get long-hosed compression gauge, remove check valve, install in front rotor leading plug hole. Get friend to crank engine - verify consistent bounces at at least 50 psi. If you have a low face, it will misfire, but will still start. Re-verify compression with engine hot. If compression is good, install fuel pressure gauge in the supply line to the engine. Verify about 32-35 psi at idle and 42 psi at WOT. With engine warm, floor gas pedal and verify that fuel pressure maintains 42 psi at rev limiter. If fuel pressure is good, check for vacuum leaks by starting a spraying starting fluid, pressurizing intake with shopvac and towel and checking for leaks with soap or any other means of testing for vacuum leaks that your mind can imagine. If no vacuum leaks, verify ignition timing with timing light. Verify all sensors per fsm. Check for pressure in coolant system, no strange symptoms with temp gauge, etc. Attempt removing radiator cap while running (using a rag and being careful) before shutting off to verify that the restart issue is still present). Scratch my head. __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic)

09-22-2010, 08:03 AM	#19
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	75psi is pretty low. I'd expect hot start issues at that point. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

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09-24-2010, 09:43 PM	#24
atsronnyats The Newbie Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: THE ATL iTrader: (0) Posts: 17 Rep Power: 0	1. Alright guys, got the car running better by setting the timing as per procedure from FSM. 2. I also adjusted the TPS sensor using multimeter and this also helped alot. 3.. I wanted to go threw threw with the idle speed mixture setting procedure but i have two questions/comments a. i have no response from variable resistor what so ever (when adjusting) and would like to know if you all had any ideas about the reason for that. Just so you all know i did take it off and verified the resistance across both circuits and it checks out. b. My second question also pertains the FSM procedure. The first step in the procedure is to attach a jumper wire to the "initial coupler set." My question is where is it. upon searching the issue some people post its next to the coolant reservoir. According to the FSM photo this would seam correct but the photo also shows the battery inches away. I haven't seen and fc3s with a coolant reservoir in this position and there is no coupler to speak of in this suggested position (next to accumulator/drier). having said that, I have to assume the "initial coupler set" is the green plug next the dianostic plug and the leading coils. thanks for clearing this up in advance