just got a 09 rx8

[Nutsid]

Originally Posted by reddozen

Nutsid,
I have no interest in arguing the accomplishments of over 20 years of research and trial an error on the 13b, and over 30 years on the 12a. A few people have experimented with the Renesis stuff, but it's been nowhere near on the scale of the 13b or 12a. In fact, in basic design, they're both damn near identical in functionality, so a lot of the same porting concepts carry well between them.

So you can say what you want, but until the Renesis gets the same attention as the other two, your point is rather unproven. The design is sounds, and if you're that hung up on 4 port design, then there's a Renesis for that too.

What I think needs to happen is more investigation into the irons, and their overall use / effectiveness, and a possible standard modification / redesign. The engine is far from ineffective, and to say that you're better off swapping a 13b-anything simply because "this one guy, that time, got like... 800 HP from this motor" is a waste of money and resources. If your goal is 600+ then you need a 20b and be done. Otherwise, you cant justify the expense and time on an engine swap when you yourself said that people have gotten the Renesis engine up to 500+ HP. It's cheaper to boost and tune an already owned / installed engine that it is to start from scratch, and that's not debatable due to the fact that, not only would you still have to buy all the FI accessories for the new motor, but you'd have to buy and rebuild the new motor, fab mounting brackets, most likely a new transmission, stand alone management, etc. You could never justify the added cost to me.

rebuild kit: $1000
Bridge Port: $500
Tuning: $500

custom super charger setup: $1500

For $3500 I can make over 400 WHP in my car by doing most of the work myself, and for most people that's more than sufficient. Like I said, if you start getting into the 600 HP range in terms of goals, you're better off going 20b, so a 13b swap makes no since.

You really don't have to argue the point. The porting rules remain the same throughout the rotary world. The more open area to allow air and fuel into the combustion chambers, the more power. The way the intake ports are setup on a Renesis don't allow for a whole lot more port work to be done. You'd be able to do a bridgeport, but unless you go with an aftermarket ECU, that will just cause all sorts of problems. And for a good one of those you're looking at a grand or better.

Another thing to consider, a good rebuild kit using OEM parts for the rebuild is going to cost more than $1,000. I should know. A 12A's rebuild kit is over $1,100. I've also done port work myself before and I can tell you with absolute certainty that a good reputable company will charge more than $500.

Regardless, let's say your numbers are correct. For 3,500 dollars you could easily do a 13B-REW swap into an Rx8 if you do the work yourself, up the boost, and have full exhaust. That will be more horsepower than the Renesis guaranteed. You'd still have enough money left over to buy a rebuild kit, crack the engine open, and bridgeport it if you really wanted to show a Renesis powered anything what was up.

I have absolutely zero complaints about the Renesis. I love the engine. But to say it is even comparable to the capabilities of the 13B-RE and 13B-REW is laughable at best. There is a great reason why it isn't popular whatsoever to "build" a Renesis. A lot of work for minimal gains.

I'm not in the mood to research cost of superchargers and turbocharger setups for a Renesis. I know when I previously looked into it was outrageous. For 350 horsepower it was something like 4,500 dollars for a turbo kit or something stupid. And then I'd have to get the engine management system and all the other stuff as well. Completely not worth it when I could get a 13B-REW with good compression and good turbos for 1,300 dollars and all it would require to have that kind of power is a good tune for 14 psi, or upgrade to a semi-decent single turbo and not have to deal with the complicated twin turbo setup. Or go one better and do a 20B swap, keeping the turbo on it... since, you know, they came from the factory with over 300 horsepower.

But to each his own. I know the Renesis can make the power (to an extent). Its just not as reasonable of a means to make the power as can be had through the 13B-RE and 13B-REW.

[reddozen]

Nutsid,
I can agree with that, but in the end, I think that the side port is "the future". Is the Renesis the 100% best option? No, but a motor swap will always cost more than adding on to an existing platform... that's all I'm saying. So by the time you reach the max power potential of the Renesis, you may as well swap a 20b anyway. That's why I say why bother with a 13b-anything at all. last time I talked to Rob at pinapple racing, I could get a 20b long block rebuilt and ported from them for $6000+ shipping ($300). Much better investment to pay an extra $3000 if you're swapping everything out anyway and just going with the 20b. I'm sure you could have it for cheaper if you did the rebuild yourself as 20b's are only like $3000 now.... so what, $4500? Would come out roughly $1500 more than buying and rebuilding an REW, or RE. I'd personally skip the REW / RE and buy a 20b if the difference was only $1500.

[Nutsid]

Out of curiosity, what kind of power does your bridge ported Renesis make?

[reddozen]

Originally Posted by Nutsid

Out of curiosity, what kind of power does your bridge ported Renesis make?

we'll find out when it gets here
>_<

I'm hoping Brian will be able to find a pallet in time for him to ship it, and me to break it in and tune it by Deals Gap... down to about 4 weeks to pull it off... so cutting it close. Putting 1000+ miles on it in a week end is going to be torturous lol.

I wish I could tell you what they make, but I only know of 2 other BP Renesis motors... one guy in South Africa with no access to a dyno, and Chris from Esmeril Racing, but with no definitive dyno numbers to substantiate his "500+ HP", and for sure no NA numbers. So I'll pretty much be the first person posting "stock" bridgeport numbers. It'll be tuned with an Access Port, so it should run good, but I don't know if that will represent it's maximum potential, and I know that a mid pipe should net at least 10 more HP, but I won't be installing one just yet.

I'll post up my numbers once I have them. I'm almost nervous to know what it will do. It's the downside to being one of the firsts to do it. Brian went pretty large on the porting though. It should be a decent boost in VE after like 2500 RPMs, but by how much, I have no clue. I do know that the upper intake manifold becomes a bottle neck at like 400HP~450HP.

I guess we'll just have to see what happens.

[Nutsid]

Originally Posted by reddozen

we'll find out when it gets here
>_<

I'm hoping Brian will be able to find a pallet in time for him to ship it, and me to break it in and tune it by Deals Gap... down to about 4 weeks to pull it off... so cutting it close. Putting 1000+ miles on it in a week end is going to be torturous lol.

I wish I could tell you what they make, but I only know of 2 other BP Renesis motors... one guy in South Africa with no access to a dyno, and Chris from Esmeril Racing, but with no definitive dyno numbers to substantiate his "500+ HP", and for sure no NA numbers. So I'll pretty much be the first person posting "stock" bridgeport numbers. It'll be tuned with an Access Port, so it should run good, but I don't know if that will represent it's maximum potential, and I know that a mid pipe should net at least 10 more HP, but I won't be installing one just yet.

I'll post up my numbers once I have them. I'm almost nervous to know what it will do. It's the downside to being one of the firsts to do it. Brian went pretty large on the porting though. It should be a decent boost in VE after like 2500 RPMs, but by how much, I have no clue. I do know that the upper intake manifold becomes a bottle neck at like 400HP~450HP.

I guess we'll just have to see what happens.

I'm really interested in the results myself. When I researched street porting I got next to no improvements over stock. It has been a couple years, however. Mainly just reference points more than anything else is thehttp://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=111853 reason I was researching.

If I ever do mod the Rx8 it will be very very little things. Exhaust (more specifically, replacing cats with a mid pipe, and muffler), intake, and a tune. Netting closer to 300 horsepower at the flywheel would be sufficient enough for me to be happy with as it is my daily driver as well.

I wish you the best of luck with your numbers. I just wouldn't expect a whole whole lot. Keep in mind that the best bridgeported all motor six port 13B I've ever seen was barely over 200 horsepower.

[reddozen]

Originally Posted by Nutsid

I'm really interested in the results myself. When I researched street porting I got next to no improvements over stock. It has been a couple years, however. Mainly just reference points more than anything else is thehttp://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=111853 reason I was researching.

If I ever do mod the Rx8 it will be very very little things. Exhaust (more specifically, replacing cats with a mid pipe, and muffler), intake, and a tune. Netting closer to 300 horsepower at the flywheel would be sufficient enough for me to be happy with as it is my daily driver as well.

I wish you the best of luck with your numbers. I just wouldn't expect a whole whole lot. Keep in mind that the best bridgeported all motor six port 13B I've ever seen was barely over 200 horsepower.

several guys on the RX8 club forums are claiming 200+ on sock ports with tuning. teamRX8 i think was claiming 250 with a "long header" and a racing cat, and lots of tuning.

I feel you on the "over 250 flywheel" I'm pretty tired of how slow this car is on pickup. Regardless, it'll be supercharged later this year, so if the port work doesn't give me what I want, that will.

[Roen]

Originally Posted by reddozen

several guys on the RX8 club forums are claiming 200+ on sock ports with tuning. teamRX8 i think was claiming 250 with a "long header" and a racing cat, and lots of tuning.

I feel you on the "over 250 flywheel" I'm pretty tired of how slow this car is on pickup. Regardless, it'll be supercharged later this year, so if the port work doesn't give me what I want, that will.

Please post the figures once you get them, it will defninitely enlighten everyone on the potential of the Renesis.