Full Function Trigger Kits

[WankelsRevenge]

Has anyone used one of the FFE Trigger kits at all? Im thinking about getting one due to issues with my Megasquirt picking up too much noise with my stock CAS, but am having problems justifying the $250+ price tag. Was hoping some of you out there could give some of your opinions.

[Fendamonky]

I've ordered one to use with my Life Racing ECU. The Hall effect unit ($219 iirc) is certainly an improvement over the factory sensor. You just need to be sure that your ECU will support the Hall sensor...

[WankelsRevenge]

Yeah they have megasquirt listed on their website as a supported system. I'm probably gonna rewire my harness here soon and if that doesn't help I'll order the crank trigger.

[RETed]

Personally, I find it a waste of money...

Sure, I'm not going to argue that it gives you "more accurate" information about the "engine position"...

$200+ is some serious cash for some people.

The problem with the stock CAS working with some of the aftermarket EMS units out there is the signal at low speeds.
A magnetically triggered engine position sensor system induces an inherently low voltage signal output at low RPM speeds.
At higher RPM's, voltage significantly rises.
Usually, it's a fine combination of voltage signal gain control and filtering that allows for the EMS to see a "clean" signal.

Even my Haltech E8 has some trouble with cranking RPM's every once in a while...

What you can do on your part is to:
1) spec out the magnet sensors to make sure they are "within" spec
I think there is a resistance spec given in the FSM?
2) Adjust the magnetic sensors to get as close to the gear teeth as possible
Most people don't know this, but you can adjust the position of the two mag sensors in the CAS.
Be careful how you adjust them, because if the (gear) teeth *HITS* the mag sensor, the mag sensor can get ruined to the point where you need to replace it.
So, adjust them as close as possible without hitting anything.
Keep in mind that the CAS spins to a pretty high RPM - half speed, so ~4KRPM at redline? - so adjust for deviation at that high speed!
3) KEEP YOUR WIRES AWAY FROM ELECTRICAL COMPONENTS - ESPECIALLY THE ALTERNATOR AND SPARK PLUGS / WIRES / COILS (if relocated)
Alternators actually produce AC (before being rectified to DC), so it can spit out nasty RFI due to the AC waves.
I know this can be challenging, especially for FC's due to the location of the stock alternator and the CAS...
The ignition system is generating wave spikes over 10,000 volts!
Keep ignition input wires away from the entire ignition system...
Another thing that most people don't think about is to keep everything away from your engine grounds.
Remember, it's all DC voltage!
That spark plug discharge has to go somewhere, so it's still passing current through the engine grounds...
For most cases, keeping the engine grounds away from the top of the engine (in most cases for ignition input wires in most installations) is usually the standard case.
4) Run additional shielding on your ignition input wires
Some people will run pieces of aluminum foil - not the prettiest.
They have dedicated metal (copper?) shielding tape if you got the money.

If you can get an o-scope to watch your ignition input signal, you can actually see what's happening, and if any of the above helps in your case...
It might come down to not adjusting the ignition input gains / filters for a clean signal for the EMS unit to interpret.


-Ted

[WankelsRevenge]

Yeah my biggest motivation in doing this is I'm picking up line noise and losing sync right at 2k rpm and want sure if upgrading to the FFE setup might help. I plan on doing a complete rewire first though for a few reasons, mainly this was my first project of this magnitude and I can already see allot of ways I can improve my wire routing both for looks and performance.I'm also thinking of upgrading to shielded wire for my ignition inputs if that might help cut down on line noise.

[TitaniumTT]

Use 'em, love 'em, much prefer to tune FC's and Cosmo's with them.... there's so much timing drift at high RPM's, even with the higher end ecu's.
IE I was running my BNR's with a stock CAS and 1B boost.... swapped out to the FFE kit, changed NOTHING else and my EGT's went hell high.... Put the car back on the dyno and added about 6* of timing to get the EGT's back down to where they were should've been.
The CAS drifts and depending on the ECU and the setup will determine the drift and the amount. FFE kit plus Hall effect sensor = MUCH less drift and more accurate timing.

As for the low RPM's.... really slow cranking, as in a touch under 10v and my car will still start

[infernosg]

Don't have one yet, but plan on getting the Hall Effect sensor kit to use with a PS1000. Absolutely necessary? No, but considering the amount of money I've already thrown at my FC another $200+ for a higher-fidelity signal is a drop in the bucket.

[TitaniumTT]

I've witnessed lots of trigger problems with Haltechs.... Most of them are the older E(insert number here). The newer Platinum series seem to be better but one car sticks out in my mind.
S4 plates, PS1000, Ludwig harness (so we can rule out crap wiring) solid fuel. I tuned the car, close to 400rwhp. Car dyno'ed PERFECT, no hiccups on the dyno whatsoever. Two days later the rear plate cracks. Car still runs and drives but cracked the plate.
He gets some S5 plates, studs the motor and brings it back to S1.
TONS of additional work done to the car requiring a complete retune. Dave tunes it, does 80+ dyno pulls and not one hiccup on the dyno again. Kid WAILS on the car leaving the shop and cracks another plate not 1/4 mile from the shop.
I suspect its CAS related.
I've just seen too many problems with timing drift and lets face facts, things happen faster on the street beating the shit out of the car in 2nd than they do on the dyno in 3rd or 4th.....

[speedjunkie]

I've been thinking of getting one for the FD. Brian, you're convincing me even more lol.

[WankelsRevenge]

Ive finally decided to take the plunge and order one of these kits. The biggest issue now is Im currently running a Megasquirt2 with the zeal board mod. Anyone happen to know what mods I need to make to it in order to run the hall sensor?

[Shainiac]

Originally Posted by WankelsRevenge

Ive finally decided to take the plunge and order one of these kits. The biggest issue now is Im currently running a Megasquirt2 with the zeal board mod. Anyone happen to know what mods I need to make to it in order to run the hall sensor?

I emailed FFE about his. I'm running MS2v3 with the Zeal car as well. I'm currently getting sync loss around 3-4k and during cranky (tired, noisy starter).
The stock CAS w/ MS uses two VR sensors, likely one primary on the v3 board and one on the Zeal. The FFE kit uses just one VR sensor and a large wheel with missing tooth. All you'll have to do is use the primary VR wire pair (remember polarity) and snip the other pair. I'd recommend removing the jumpers for the second pair at the card, too (VR2+/-). This allows you two spare ports for fun mod kits like launch control (easy and makes fun noises), boost control, ect.

Let me know how it works. I broke my 3rd gear and my car will be down till spring

[WankelsRevenge]

Yeah Im getting really bad sync loss right at 2k and Ive rewired my CAS three or four times, which is what prodded me into getting this setup. I got everything ordered along with a new wire harness from DIYautotune so I can do my whole engine all at once. Now Im just trying to do as much research as I can about what mods I need to make to my MS box and the harness for the new setup. And hopefully when I wire in the harness this time it will be alot cleaner.

[WankelsRevenge]

Finished getting everything installed yesterday and its running great. Ended up not having to make any kind of internal changes to the MS box at all. Sadly I couldn't run my engine very long as I didn't have a alternator/water pump belt on it and didn't want to kill my battery or overheat my engine but it rev'ed all the way up to redline with no problems at all. Im also running MS2V3 so the install should be just as simple for you as well, and I didnt have to modify the new harness I got either.

[driftxsequence]

Did you go with the VR version or the hall effect sensor version? I've had the hall effect one sitting in my garage for months. I know the Zeal card can go away, and I need to move a couple jumpers on the board. I just dont know what goes where, and what gets changed in tunerstudio.

[WankelsRevenge]

I got the one with the Hall sensor. Install was unbelievably simple I had to made absolutly no changes to the MS electronics themselves. Only a few changes in Tunerstudio and I was good to go. Now that being said I also completely redid my wire harness and was able to us the (I think) #2 and #4 wires for my hall sensor pickup and just had to supply power from my junction box. Engine rev's and runs super smooth now and Ive also noticed my stock tach being off a bit compared to what my Tunerstudio gauges are reading.