Fenda's uber garage Engine Build

[Fendamonky]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

ok..... We know the pump is bad.... why chance it? I wouldn't drive it until a new pump goes is... but that's me

The new pump should be in this weekend. I'm keeping the tank topped up now and I'm only "chancing it" 5-10 miles from home. And because heat cycles

Originally Posted by Brian

Second... why are you seeing 43 psi? I set FPSI @ 35 when we got the thing started in January.... did you change the base pressure?

It didn't want to idle right at 30psi (we were only seeing about 30psi) that saturday we brought it up. Vlad bumped it up to 40-43psi and it idled happily. I've got no qualms with running it at 35psi, but if it won't idle...

Originally Posted by Brian

Aw shit... if you wanted a lightly used 044, you should've told me, I would've given you mine... Only used for like a month and one dyno.. of course it flows less than a stock TII pump (I flow tested it) Or, I could get you the FuelLab pump I just put in that has like 20 minutes of run time on it..... that one won't pull a prime, or I could scrougne around for the Aeromotive pump that has maybe a few houras on it that won't hold pressure.....

I'm getting it from silverfdturbo6port on the other forum. He says he ran it inline (with a swirl pot) for a couple hundred miles before deleting it for a dual intank setup that he wants to use for his 20B. It can't be any worse than the one I've got (been in tank for easily over 4 years now).

Originally Posted by Brian

Lightly used.... fuck that noise... flow test that shit before you turn the key.... can't trust anything or anyone.... cavitate these pumps or run them dry and they're garbage....

How would I flow test it?

He's assured me that it never ran dry, if it turns out otherwise... I'm sure I could work something out.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

Its 9AM and the boxes aren't even open... what are you guys? Some kind of government workers sitting around scratching your balls and drinking coffee 7 until 10 only to go to lunch at 11:30, come back around 1 and then hit the gym at 2:30 before you head home? Oh wait....

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

The new pump should be in this weekend. I'm keeping the tank topped up now and I'm only "chancing it" 5-10 miles from home. And because heat cycles


It didn't want to idle right at 30psi (we were only seeing about 30psi) that saturday we brought it up. Vlad bumped it up to 40-43psi and it idled happily. I've got no qualms with running it at 35psi, but if it won't idle...

I set it @ 35 base psi in january for a reason... if ya changed it, I wish you had told me, now what was done on saturday morning needs to be redone. There's no reason to run a boosted car @ 42.5 psi or 3bar base fuel pressure, especially with the amount of injector you have.... it just kills pumps quicker. I'm thinking of turning mine down to 30psi base and it will idle somewhere around 22psi and probably drop to ~17psi on hard decel....

Turning it up to 43psi and running 25psi of boost nets ~70psi of rail pressure.... pumps don't flow very well under higher pressures and the Bosch is notorious for cavitating... hell.... that pump could've been what puked 3 engines... just saying... whatever did frag 3 engines was never found.... we just assumed it was PFS and his shitty building and porting and that bullshit PFC and joke of a CDI known as the twin nopower...

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

I'm getting it from silverfdturbo6port on the other forum. He says he ran it inline (with a swirl pot) for a couple hundred miles before deleting it for a dual intank setup that he wants to use for his 20B. It can't be any worse than the one I've got (been in tank for easily over 4 years now).

I've got a Bosch 044 that was used for probably about the same, maybe less and I guarauntee it's worse....

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

How would I flow test it?

Take a 5 gallon jerry can go to the gas station
buy 5 gallons of gas
mark where on the tank 5 gallons is
remove return line from fuel tank top and insert into jerry can
Set base pressure to 43.5.... oh wait
jump fuel pump and time how long it takes to pump 5 gallons
MATH
Compare calcs to Bosch specs.
turn up to 72psi and repeat

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

He's assured me that it never ran dry

Yup... and we have a customer here that bought a used Blitz Dual SBC boost controller and he was assured that it worked just fine.... he boost spiked to well over 30psi on the dyno..... when asked where he got it
scubie forum
why was the guy selling it
becuase it wouldn't control the boost on his subie
but it's a BOOST CONTROLLER
Yeah but something about the subies....
some wierd mystical turbo that only subaru knows how to regulate boost on??!?!?!

[TitaniumTT]

The same..... I would still like to put a small intank pump in your car keep that fuel lab thing fed and happy.... btw - parts showed today I BELIEVE.... still need to open box...

[WE3RX7]

Its 9AM and the boxes aren't even open... what are you guys? Some kind of government workers sitting around scratching your balls and drinking coffee 7 until 10 only to go to lunch at 11:30, come back around 1 and then hit the gym at 2:30 before you head home? Oh wait....

[TitaniumTT]

Kewl.... @ 3bar it should flow about 67gph and about 53gph @ 72 psi

[Fendamonky]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Kewl.... @ 3bar it should flow about 67gph and about 53gph @ 72 psi

So I finally got around to flow testing the fuel pump on Thursday night. Due to the fact that we ran AN lines it was actually very easy for me to extend the return line far enough to reach into the 5gal fuel can with no issues. I just picked up a male/male -6 connector and attached an extra length of hose







However... I ran into two problems. One is a simple fix, the other will require a little bit more effort.

The first problem was that I totally retarded out and forgot to have another (running) car connected to mine by way of jumper cables. Without that 14v power feed from the running car my pump took about 6 minutes to fill the 5 gallons. Easy fix is that I'll just push my car out of the garage and do it again with a car attached.

Here's the other problem I found... While doing the test I found a distinct bulge in the short length of rubber fuel hose on the feeding side.



THAT is not good. I'm debating on whether I should replace that with fresh rubber hose (we're holding off on connecting the AN line directly until we make and install the swirl pot) or use a very small but of nylon braided -6 hose that I have left over. The internal diameter of the -6 is about identical to the outer diameter of the stock lines, so I'm thinking it *should* seal tight with a worm clamp...

I'm def open to suggestions from the pro's on that though ^_^

[JL1RX7]

I would replace it. You can get a rubber fuel hose from advance for pretty cheap. Cut it bring it with you get the length you need and some band clamps and call it a day.

[Fendamonky]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Kewl.... @ 3bar it should flow about 67gph and about 53gph @ 72 psi

Ok, so if I break the seconds down into rough fractions (30 sec = .5, 45 sec = .75) then I math (minute.fraction/5)*60 I com up with the following:

42.5/60= .7083 (rounded to .71). So the time for 43psi would be 5.71. Therefore:
(5.71/5=1.142)x60= 68.52GPH

31.5/60= .525 (rounded to .53). So the time for 70psi would be 6.53.
Therefore:
(6.53/5=1.306)x60= 78.36GPH


But.... I know that can't be right because if it were flowing a higher GPH @ higher psi than it would take less time. Can't math =(

[Fendamonky]

So it'll flow LESS fuel the higher the pressure is? That's kinda 'tarded... One would hope that it would flow more fuel as it works harder (to a certain extent).

[RXtacy]

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

So it'll flow LESS fuel the higher the pressure is? That's kinda 'tarded... One would hope that it would flow more fuel as it works harder (to a certain extent).

Pressure resists flow

[WE3RX7]

Yup.. thats why you pay the big bucks for good fuel pumps. Or just run two 044s

[Fendamonky]

I think I'll be able to make due, with my power goals, by running one 044 inline after a swirl pot. Until I swap ECU's and turn the power up the single, in tank, 044 should suffice (only hoping/expecting 390whp-415whp at wastegate).

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by RXtacy

Pressure resists flow

That.... pumps are working harder, they're just putting less out.... and sucking more amps, which leads to heat, which leads to resistance, which leads to voltage drops, which leads to decreases fuel flow, which when coupled with ECU's that don't log FPSI or have a way to comp for it leads to engines that like to shat themselves......

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

Yup.. thats why you pay the big bucks for good fuel pumps. Or just run two 044s

Value hearing, you do not.... Hate those fucking pumps.... hate the FuelLAbs even more for that reason.... quite my ass....

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

I think I'll be able to make due, with my power goals, by running one 044 inline after a swirl pot. Until I swap ECU's and turn the power up the single, in tank, 044 should suffice (only hoping/expecting 390whp-415whp at wastegate).

FWIW I made 540 RWHP w/a single Aeromotive stealth intank fuel pump on a BW running 24psi....

I would be surprised if you touched 400 with that turbo @ 13psi.... I'm thinking 380-390 is more like it....

[Fendamonky]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

That.... pumps are working harder, they're just putting less out.... and sucking more amps, which leads to heat, which leads to resistance, which leads to voltage drops, which leads to decreases fuel flow, which when coupled with ECU's that don't log FPSI or have a way to comp for it leads to engines that like to shat themselves......

That makes sense.

Originally Posted by Brian

I would be surprised if you touched 400 with that turbo @ 13psi.... I'm thinking 380-390 is more like it....

I've been running my guestimates on about 14psi, but even so I'd be super stoked with 380-390 at 13psi. It's gunna be more than I'd be able to (legally) use on the local roads anyway

[JL1RX7]

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

I've been running my guestimates on about 14psi, but even so I'd be super stoked with 380-390 at 13psi. It's gunna be more than I'd be able to (legally) use on the local roads anyway

That's because local roads are parking lots..... Foot power might be faster most days.