Over-Rev Disaster?

parrotfever · 08-24-2009, 09:35 AM

Engine came apart yesterday. Photos of rear rotor & housing. Any opinions as to cause?

Also, next step? Anyone got a rear rotor & housing in good shape for sale? PM me please!

parrotfever Bob

djmtsu · 08-24-2009, 09:57 AM

Contact Kevin Landers!!!

www.rotaryresurrection.com, or just PM him here!

And it looks like it pukes a seal or something. There had to something hard bouncing around in there to gouge the rotor like that!!

My5ABaby · 08-24-2009, 09:31 PM

It'll buff out.

JL1RX7 · 08-24-2009, 10:04 PM

Some duct tape bondo and wire coat hanger will fix it!

***TitaniumTT*** · 08-24-2009, 11:20 PM

That doesn't look like an over-rev to me. Something got in there and chunked it pretty well.

Porting in the future? Whatever you do, don't reuse N/A housings, get some TII ones or change the sleeves if you do get N/A housings

rx7 FC TII · 08-25-2009, 11:31 AM

some JB weld and duct tape will fix it.

yes its trash. contact kevin landers. he rebuilt my motor and ported it. did great work for a good price

SecondGenPat · 08-25-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Porting in the future? Whatever you do, don't reuse N/A housings, get some TII ones or change the sleeves if you do get N/A housings

Where can you pick up just the TII sleeves from? I've never heard of that before.

parrotfever · 08-25-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Porting in the future? Whatever you do, don't reuse N/A housings, get some TII ones or change the sleeves if you do get N/A housings

I see 'where to get' raised already - but my question is: Why not use NA housings (not the damaged one, of course)? And, by sleeves, do you mean the sleeves in the exhaust port? Again, why not? Part of my goal in this has been to finally understand this creation in all its glory. So please, Titanium TT (or anyone else for that matter), help educate an acolyte!

parrotfever Bob

Rotary Inspired · 08-25-2009, 05:39 PM

The N/A sleeves are have the baffler in there for noise reduction. The sleeves obviously hurt flow and are a PITA to port around. I have done it but its not worth it. Get TII sleeves or I prefer 3rd gen housings because the housings don't have the holes for the coolant to go into the intake manifold. I agree that is not a overrev. that is something in the intake. Are all the apex seal there(each piece of the 3 piece seals)?

NoDOHC · 08-25-2009, 10:01 PM

You can cut the diffusers out with a hammer and cold chisel is about 30 seconds. It is a lot of work driving the dowels out, I would just remove the diffusers from the NA sleeves (making them identical to turbo sleeves).

I have never seen a stock rotary fail due to overrevving. I would guess this was carbon that built up in the intake manifold due to the oil injection and then got sucked into the engine at high speeds when the ports opened.

***TitaniumTT*** · 08-26-2009, 12:27 AM

The roll pins are a piece of cake to remove if you have a MIG welder and a set of vice grips. I've been told the sleeves themselves are inconel and I would be surpirsed if a cold chisel and a hammer would break them.

As said before, N/A housings are fine to use and are easier to come by in good shape. The sleeves have the baffles in them for noise reduction and they kill flow. My understanding is there is a difference in the sleeve itself and by cutting or grinding them out, they flow just as bad and now they're loud as all get out. I never really paid enough attention to the differences outside one is baffled and the other not to speak intellegently not do I believe anyone has done flow testing and posted results either.

If you can find someone who tears apart alot of blown engines, he should be able to salvage a few sleves for you. Might even throw them in for you if you get a set of housings as well.

solareon · 08-31-2009, 09:19 AM

Don't the turbo housings have the hole in them for the water jacket passage through the LIM? And the NA housings have this plugged

NoDOHC · 08-31-2009, 06:47 PM

I don't know what the sleeves are made of, but a pneumatic chisel makes very short work of them.

I am not theorizing here, I have done it several times.

An NA housing can easily be drilled for the water passage to the turbo.

Really, turbo housings are the same as NA housings, with a little additional machine work (drill hole out, remove diffuser)

I had trouble with the roll pins, but I didn't try the MIG and vise-grip idea.

edit: there is no difference in the sleeve (except for the diffuser) and the NA sleeves flow just fine (once the difuser has been removed).

The turbo port timing is identical to the NA.

The REW port opens earlier, hurting fuel economy, raising EGT and mildly improving flow.

Here are some pictures:
NA Sleeve
NA Sleeve.JPG
NA Sleeve w/o diffuser
NA-diffuser, looking in.JPG
Turbo Sleeve
Turbo sleeve.JPG
Streetported turbo sleeve
streetported turbo.JPG
RE/REW ?? on left, NA on Right
REW next to NA.JPG

08-24-2009, 09:57 AM	#2
djmtsu My minds tellin' me no... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (10) Posts: 4,043 Rep Power: 21	Contact Kevin Landers!!! www.rotaryresurrection.com, or just PM him here! And it looks like it pukes a seal or something. There had to something hard bouncing around in there to gouge the rotor like that!! __________________ 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 2003 Toyota Tundra TRD 2015 Toyota 4Runner SR5

08-24-2009, 09:31 PM	#3
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	It'll buff out. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

08-24-2009, 11:20 PM	#5
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	That doesn't look like an over-rev to me. Something got in there and chunked it pretty well. Porting in the future? Whatever you do, don't reuse N/A housings, get some TII ones or change the sleeves if you do get N/A housings __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

08-25-2009, 05:39 PM	#9
Rotary Inspired Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SW OKC iTrader: (0) Posts: 75 Rep Power: 17	The N/A sleeves are have the baffler in there for noise reduction. The sleeves obviously hurt flow and are a PITA to port around. I have done it but its not worth it. Get TII sleeves or I prefer 3rd gen housings because the housings don't have the holes for the coolant to go into the intake manifold. I agree that is not a overrev. that is something in the intake. Are all the apex seal there(each piece of the 3 piece seals)? __________________ If you wanna become ASE certified buy the RX7.

08-25-2009, 10:01 PM	#10
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin iTrader: (1) Posts: 855 Rep Power: 17	You can cut the diffusers out with a hammer and cold chisel is about 30 seconds. It is a lot of work driving the dowels out, I would just remove the diffusers from the NA sleeves (making them identical to turbo sleeves). I have never seen a stock rotary fail due to overrevving. I would guess this was carbon that built up in the intake manifold due to the oil injection and then got sucked into the engine at high speeds when the ports opened. __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic) Last edited by NoDOHC; 08-25-2009 at 10:04 PM..

08-24-2009, 10:04 PM	#4
JL1RX7 Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Front Royal, VA iTrader: (1) Posts: 487 Rep Power: 17	Some duct tape bondo and wire coat hanger will fix it!

08-26-2009, 12:27 AM	#11
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	The roll pins are a piece of cake to remove if you have a MIG welder and a set of vice grips. I've been told the sleeves themselves are inconel and I would be surpirsed if a cold chisel and a hammer would break them. As said before, N/A housings are fine to use and are easier to come by in good shape. The sleeves have the baffles in them for noise reduction and they kill flow. My understanding is there is a difference in the sleeve itself and by cutting or grinding them out, they flow just as bad and now they're loud as all get out. I never really paid enough attention to the differences outside one is baffled and the other not to speak intellegently not do I believe anyone has done flow testing and posted results either. If you can find someone who tears apart alot of blown engines, he should be able to salvage a few sleves for you. Might even throw them in for you if you get a set of housings as well. __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

08-31-2009, 09:19 AM	#12
solareon The Newbie Join Date: Jun 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Don't the turbo housings have the hole in them for the water jacket passage through the LIM? And the NA housings have this plugged

08-31-2009, 06:47 PM	#13
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin iTrader: (1) Posts: 855 Rep Power: 17	I don't know what the sleeves are made of, but a pneumatic chisel makes very short work of them. I am not theorizing here, I have done it several times. An NA housing can easily be drilled for the water passage to the turbo. Really, turbo housings are the same as NA housings, with a little additional machine work (drill hole out, remove diffuser) I had trouble with the roll pins, but I didn't try the MIG and vise-grip idea. edit: there is no difference in the sleeve (except for the diffuser) and the NA sleeves flow just fine (once the difuser has been removed). The turbo port timing is identical to the NA. The REW port opens earlier, hurting fuel economy, raising EGT and mildly improving flow. Here are some pictures: NA Sleeve NA Sleeve.JPG NA Sleeve w/o diffuser NA-diffuser, looking in.JPG Turbo Sleeve Turbo sleeve.JPG Streetported turbo sleeve streetported turbo.JPG RE/REW ?? on left, NA on Right REW next to NA.JPG __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic) Last edited by NoDOHC; 08-31-2009 at 07:16 PM.. Reason: Add info