20B N/A build thread -- 3rd rotors a charm - Page 4

RETed · 07-05-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlies7

Ted,

Based on your experience you think I would be ok using LSx coils for my NA setup?

Sorry for the late reply, but I was trying to dig for more info on this...

Others have had great experience with the LSx coils.
I'm not a very big fan of them - I believe in bigger-is-better when it comes to coils.
(If we had the money, I'd go for MSD HVC series coils, but these are EXPENSIVE and also very bulky.)
We're trying to retrofit LSx (dunno which series) coils on our long-dormant 20B ourselves.

There was a great thread on the Evil Forum, but I can't find the thread right now using Google search.
It pointed to the EFI101.COM website, but I'm not getting good hit on there either.
All I remember was "mercury marine" coils - this search popped up a few hits on EFI101, but not the threads I was looking for...

-Ted

***TitaniumTT*** · 07-05-2009, 11:46 PM

The MoTeC dealer that I bought my M820 from recomeended the LSx coils and thus far I have had zero problems with them. His rec came from using them on T-BIGMF'ers gulping meth and putting down damn near 1000hp. However, you need to be sure that whatever EMS you decide to run does not need wasted spark. The LSx coils require more dwell time than is allowed and like a healthy supply of juice.

As for the Mercury Marine coils............. being a MARINE GUY myself I can tell you there are two types, the I/O type and the outboard type. The I/O types are standard LS coils of some variety. The outboard coils I have seen two versions of, the 2-stroke and the 4-stroke. I would think the 4-stroke coils would be require to long of a dwell time and produce an average spark. The 2-stroke variants, well, obviously they have to be a much stouter coil.

FYI - Yamaha builds a number of Merc engines. Best thing to do would be to contact Quicksilver directly and talk to them.

EDIT- QuickSilver being the parts division of Mercuy Marine... get it. QuickSilver, Mercury

charlies7 · 07-13-2009, 01:35 AM

Just a little update..

Bought 3 NEW 13b housings

Also im working with a interchangeable intake that will work with a single plenum and ITB.

Ill try and get some solid models soon and discuss my approach to it as far as testing different setups etc.

need RX7 · 07-13-2009, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlies7

Bought 3 NEW 13b housings

Ouch

Sounds like it'll be a sweet setup when it's done though.

I'm interested in this intake idea.

KaiFD3S · 07-14-2009, 09:18 PM

Hey Charlie, have you seen these...

http://www.tweakit.net/shop/product_...roducts_id=118

price is not too bad....

War Eagle · 07-17-2009, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaiFD3S

Hey Charlie, have you seen these...

http://www.tweakit.net/shop/product_...roducts_id=118

price is not too bad....

$1,200 shipped. Not bad at all.

gmonsen · 07-22-2009, 04:02 PM

Charlie... Welcome to the growing group of 20b NA guys! Great build you have going.

Couple of things. Generally, you should just go with whatever EMS your builder is most comfortable with and ignore most of the flack. However, I would echo most of what RETed said comparing the Tec and Haltech systems. I like the e6k a lot and really liked the ignition flexibility, since I used several different trigger setups (back in the day). I would add that with an NA motor, many of the functions both TEC and Haltech provide are a bit less critical than with the turbo motors. I use a Microtech and it works just fine.

On ignitions. Again, I agree with RETed that CDI is a benefit. CDI only runs generally from 0-3,000 rpm, but the mutliple, stronger sparks burn much better than inductive setups or stock. Plus, if you go MSD, which is my preferred ignition, they (I think) are still the only true digital system and the firing is very precise at high rpm.

On coils. Bigger is better. The MSD Blaster series are reasonably priced on sale especially and do a great job. Output is very high and the rise times are very quick. Since the NA motor will rev to 10,000 rpm if balanced right and with no worries, you need the fastest rise times you can get. MSD's run very cool at high rpms.

Carry on...

Gordon

charlies7 · 08-04-2009, 01:49 AM

Thanks for posting Gordon, your car was the inspiration for this build..

As far as updates..I have none.

The engine will be back by the end of the month. I have all the CAD work done for the motor mount brackets and mounts. I planned on using 1/8 steel plate but decided to go with 1/4 aluminum for corrosion resistance, etc. They will be plenty beefy and will get the job done. I will have some pictures of them when they are done.

gmonsen · 09-21-2009, 09:58 AM

Charlie... Any update?

Gordon

Renesisking · 11-26-2009, 10:19 PM

just out of curiosity, how much will this build cost you? i was talking to dave at KDRotary in PA, idk if you guys know him or not, but for the rx8 he said its roughly anywhere between $20 - $25 grand.

07-05-2009, 11:46 PM	#47
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	The MoTeC dealer that I bought my M820 from recomeended the LSx coils and thus far I have had zero problems with them. His rec came from using them on T-BIGMF'ers gulping meth and putting down damn near 1000hp. However, you need to be sure that whatever EMS you decide to run does not need wasted spark. The LSx coils require more dwell time than is allowed and like a healthy supply of juice. As for the Mercury Marine coils............. being a MARINE GUY myself I can tell you there are two types, the I/O type and the outboard type. The I/O types are standard LS coils of some variety. The outboard coils I have seen two versions of, the 2-stroke and the 4-stroke. I would think the 4-stroke coils would be require to long of a dwell time and produce an average spark. The 2-stroke variants, well, obviously they have to be a much stouter coil. FYI - Yamaha builds a number of Merc engines. Best thing to do would be to contact Quicksilver directly and talk to them. EDIT- QuickSilver being the parts division of Mercuy Marine... get it. QuickSilver, Mercury __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

07-22-2009, 04:02 PM	#52
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania Posts: 144 Rep Power: 18	Charlie... Welcome to the growing group of 20b NA guys! Great build you have going. Couple of things. Generally, you should just go with whatever EMS your builder is most comfortable with and ignore most of the flack. However, I would echo most of what RETed said comparing the Tec and Haltech systems. I like the e6k a lot and really liked the ignition flexibility, since I used several different trigger setups (back in the day). I would add that with an NA motor, many of the functions both TEC and Haltech provide are a bit less critical than with the turbo motors. I use a Microtech and it works just fine. On ignitions. Again, I agree with RETed that CDI is a benefit. CDI only runs generally from 0-3,000 rpm, but the mutliple, stronger sparks burn much better than inductive setups or stock. Plus, if you go MSD, which is my preferred ignition, they (I think) are still the only true digital system and the firing is very precise at high rpm. On coils. Bigger is better. The MSD Blaster series are reasonably priced on sale especially and do a great job. Output is very high and the rise times are very quick. Since the NA motor will rev to 10,000 rpm if balanced right and with no worries, you need the fastest rise times you can get. MSD's run very cool at high rpms. Carry on... Gordon __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

09-21-2009, 09:58 AM	#54
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania Posts: 144 Rep Power: 18	Charlie... Any update? Gordon __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

07-13-2009, 01:35 AM	#48
charlies7 one broke moderator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 319 Rep Power: 18	Just a little update.. Bought 3 NEW 13b housings Also im working with a interchangeable intake that will work with a single plenum and ITB. Ill try and get some solid models soon and discuss my approach to it as far as testing different setups etc.

07-14-2009, 09:18 PM	#50
KaiFD3S Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 437 Rep Power: 18	Hey Charlie, have you seen these... http://www.tweakit.net/shop/product_...roducts_id=118 price is not too bad....

08-04-2009, 01:49 AM	#53
charlies7 one broke moderator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 319 Rep Power: 18	Thanks for posting Gordon, your car was the inspiration for this build.. As far as updates..I have none. The engine will be back by the end of the month. I have all the CAD work done for the motor mount brackets and mounts. I planned on using 1/8 steel plate but decided to go with 1/4 aluminum for corrosion resistance, etc. They will be plenty beefy and will get the job done. I will have some pictures of them when they are done.

11-26-2009, 10:19 PM	#55
Renesisking Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: May 2009 Location: Connecticut Posts: 39 Rep Power: 0	just out of curiosity, how much will this build cost you? i was talking to dave at KDRotary in PA, idk if you guys know him or not, but for the rx8 he said its roughly anywhere between $20 - $25 grand.