Question about single turbo vacuum diagrams

speedjunkie · 10-15-2008, 12:42 AM

I posted this on 7club but haven't gotten much help there. A couple people have posted but what they described didn't work. Maybe it's the boost controller, who knows. I wasn't sure where to post this either so I hope it's right.

I finished a single turbo swap about a month ago, and since before that I've been trying to figure out which single turbo vacuum diagram to use. I have an APEX'i AVC-R and I've had the lines hooked up several different ways and nothing seems to work correctly. Here is the thread from 7club...

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=789659

If anyone can help me out, I'd really appreciate it.

BTW this site got HUGE since the last time I was on here, wow. And I think we need a few more vendors HAHA.

cewrx7r1 · 10-15-2008, 09:45 AM

This is how I have my Blitz EBC hooked up after trying another way.
It works perfectly with no spiking.

Pressure source for the EBC unit comes from the rear of the UIM near the map sensor source. You want the two to read equal pressures.

Pressure source for the side of the wastegate and for the solenoid "in" comes from the TB elbow which has been tapped and "Teed". This pressure is closer to the pressure for the EBC and map sensor and less than before the IC.

The solenoid out goes to the top of the WG.

I use a 10lb WG spring and run 11, 13, 15, 16 psi boost as my EBC has four settings.

speedjunkie · 10-15-2008, 08:27 PM

Thanks Chuck!

On my solenoid is has NC, NO and COM, I assume "in" on yours is NC for me and "out" for you is COM. Does that sound right? I never thought about running the T from near the TB, that's one I haven't tried yet. Should pressure be the same at the front of the UIM (one of the 4 nipples coming off) as it is from the two nipples on the rear (one of which going to the MAP sensor) I can run it from the rear too, I'm just curious. And do you think it would be alright to run the T from one of those nipples on the front near the TB?

Once I replace my second blown turbo gasket I'll try this out, haha.

Oh, I meant to ask you, do you have a line going from a nipple on the turbo to the filler neck? I've been told I need this but to me it looks like it would be a boost leak. And do you have a line going to the fuel atomization nipple? And do you still have the hose and PCV valve between the filler neck and UIM?

Kane · 10-16-2008, 02:17 PM

On the FD I just finished building - we ran all the crankcase lines to a catch can only. The fuel atomization line went in front of the turbo for a vacuum source only.

The BC (Greddy I presume) looks right; COM goes to the watstegate if I remember correctly; you can get diretions from the Greddy site.

A few things

- the EMS MAP Sensor, BOV Vac Line and BC Pressure sensor should all be after the throttle body; right at the throttle body nipples or close to it; the UIM/LIM nipples I have heard don't give consistant readings.

- The wastegate signal lines and boost only line for the BOV should be after the Turbo but before the Throttle Body.

- The OMP and Fuel Atomization lines should all be vacuum only before the turbo.

- Avoid T-inng the Vacuum source for the BOV and the MAP sensor; we did MAP Sensor; and BC on one line and Boost Gauge on its own, and BOV on its own.

That is all from memory - so take it with a grain of salt.

speedjunkie · 10-16-2008, 04:21 PM

No the EBC I have is the AVC-R, not the GReddy or Blitz or anything else. The APEX'i directions say to T from the NC port (on the solenoid valve) to the IC piping and side of the wastegate, but that hasn't worked for me, maybe because I've been using the UIM/LIM nipples and it's not getting a consistent reading. I have the BOV vac line going to the front of the UIM next to the throttle body, shouldn't that give the same reading as the rear nipples? And I thought there were only 2 nipples on the rear of the UIM near the throttle body?

Thanks for the input!

Kane · 10-16-2008, 04:30 PM

I have an 8 - but similar problems; the vacuum signal from those last set of nipples is supposed to be incosistant due to blow-back from the intake stroke of the motor.... I haven't exp it personally; just from my research doing the single turbo on the FD and the turbo on the 8.

The BOV location sounds fine; just don't T into it as it will slow the actuation of the BOV.

As for your BC; I am not sure - I have the Greddy Profec (which has similar solenoid set-up interestingly enough). Normally you want 3 signal lines to the BC; a BOOST ONLY signal (between the turbo outlet and the throttle body; preferably before the IC); a manifold vacuum signal (shows the pressure on the BC screen; used for tuning the thing) and the signal that goes to the wastegate to open it.

If you T from the wastegate and the boost only (IC piping); like run a T fitting or T INTO That area? If you don't T INTO it; blocking that signal line - the BC won't work.

speedjunkie · 10-16-2008, 11:09 PM

Scratch using the last two nipples on the UIM-check.

For the EBC, I have a solenoid valve and a sensor, 2 lines go to the valve (NC and COM) and one goes from near the MAP sensor nipple to the sensor. Is that what you're talking about?

The way I had it set up is with the line coming from the side of the WG to the T, another line going to the NC port on the solenoid, and the last line going to the IC piping. The way I have it NOW though, I swapped the line going from the WG side to that T, now it is going to the UIM near the TB and just a single line is going straight from the NC port to the IC piping. Know what I mean?

Kane · 10-17-2008, 11:05 AM

Can you draw a picture or take one? Just to make sure we are saying the same thing.

speedjunkie · 10-17-2008, 11:10 AM

I'll see what I can do, I'm at work right now though.

speedjunkie · 10-17-2008, 04:35 PM

Ok, VAC 1 is the way I have it running now. VAC 2 is the way I've interpreted what you and Chuck have said. And Vac is a blank canvas for you all to use to teach me the correct way cause I've screwed up the first 2 haha.

Kane · 10-17-2008, 04:44 PM

Do you have the Syncronic Wastegate? I am not 100% sure on that part; BUT I think you wanna switch those two WG lines; you want the boost to push the WG open.

Other than that Vac2 looks good to me. Assuming the solenoid is hooked up on the right ports (I don't have the user manual for that).

speedjunkie · 10-18-2008, 02:37 AM

No, my wastegate is an HKS 44mm. I'm not sure about switching the two on the wastegate though. I've swapped them before and if I remember right it didn't change anything. But hey, it's worth a shot haha. However, that's how all the vacuum diagrams have it.

I had the solenoid hooked up wrong at first, I was using the NO port instead of the NC port.

speedjunkie · 10-19-2008, 11:06 PM

I haven't gotten the vacuum lines routed to the filter yet, but I moved the one for the BC sensor to the rear of the UIM, along with the one for the boost gauge. The line from the side of the wastegate was already moved to the front of the UIM near the TB already.

So far I've only gotten about 10-13psi when it's set to 15psi.

I've forgotten to mention I don't have some things on the EBC set up, I have it set up according to Rob Robinette's directions, aside from not using .65 (9psi) as the boost setting, but 10 and 15psi on setting A and B respectively.

http://robrobinette.com/boost_avc_r_install.htm

speedjunkie · 10-21-2008, 02:37 PM

We have also noticed the wastegate is slowly bleeding off before it's supposed to. Does that sound like a familiar problem. I'm obviously no good at how to route vacuum lines lol.

Whizbang · 10-21-2008, 02:53 PM

just a side thought, it could be that the spring in the WG (which cant fine tune for a given PSI, is running less boost due to altitude and the boost controller is trying to do what it can. So maybe the spring is the issue?

10-15-2008, 12:42 AM	#1
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	Question about single turbo vacuum diagrams I posted this on 7club but haven't gotten much help there. A couple people have posted but what they described didn't work. Maybe it's the boost controller, who knows. I wasn't sure where to post this either so I hope it's right. I finished a single turbo swap about a month ago, and since before that I've been trying to figure out which single turbo vacuum diagram to use. I have an APEX'i AVC-R and I've had the lines hooked up several different ways and nothing seems to work correctly. Here is the thread from 7club... http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=789659 If anyone can help me out, I'd really appreciate it. BTW this site got HUGE since the last time I was on here, wow. And I think we need a few more vendors HAHA.

10-15-2008, 08:27 PM	#3
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	Thanks Chuck! On my solenoid is has NC, NO and COM, I assume "in" on yours is NC for me and "out" for you is COM. Does that sound right? I never thought about running the T from near the TB, that's one I haven't tried yet. Should pressure be the same at the front of the UIM (one of the 4 nipples coming off) as it is from the two nipples on the rear (one of which going to the MAP sensor) I can run it from the rear too, I'm just curious. And do you think it would be alright to run the T from one of those nipples on the front near the TB? Once I replace my second blown turbo gasket I'll try this out, haha. Oh, I meant to ask you, do you have a line going from a nipple on the turbo to the filler neck? I've been told I need this but to me it looks like it would be a boost leak. And do you have a line going to the fuel atomization nipple? And do you still have the hose and PCV valve between the filler neck and UIM? Last edited by speedjunkie; 10-15-2008 at 08:52 PM..

10-16-2008, 02:17 PM	#4
Kane All about the O2 Join Date: Sep 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 295 Rep Power: 17	On the FD I just finished building - we ran all the crankcase lines to a catch can only. The fuel atomization line went in front of the turbo for a vacuum source only. The BC (Greddy I presume) looks right; COM goes to the watstegate if I remember correctly; you can get diretions from the Greddy site. A few things - the EMS MAP Sensor, BOV Vac Line and BC Pressure sensor should all be after the throttle body; right at the throttle body nipples or close to it; the UIM/LIM nipples I have heard don't give consistant readings. - The wastegate signal lines and boost only line for the BOV should be after the Turbo but before the Throttle Body. - The OMP and Fuel Atomization lines should all be vacuum only before the turbo. - Avoid T-inng the Vacuum source for the BOV and the MAP sensor; we did MAP Sensor; and BC on one line and Boost Gauge on its own, and BOV on its own. That is all from memory - so take it with a grain of salt. __________________ My 2007 Turbocharged RX8

10-16-2008, 04:30 PM	#6
Kane All about the O2 Join Date: Sep 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 295 Rep Power: 17	I have an 8 - but similar problems; the vacuum signal from those last set of nipples is supposed to be incosistant due to blow-back from the intake stroke of the motor.... I haven't exp it personally; just from my research doing the single turbo on the FD and the turbo on the 8. The BOV location sounds fine; just don't T into it as it will slow the actuation of the BOV. As for your BC; I am not sure - I have the Greddy Profec (which has similar solenoid set-up interestingly enough). Normally you want 3 signal lines to the BC; a BOOST ONLY signal (between the turbo outlet and the throttle body; preferably before the IC); a manifold vacuum signal (shows the pressure on the BC screen; used for tuning the thing) and the signal that goes to the wastegate to open it. If you T from the wastegate and the boost only (IC piping); like run a T fitting or T INTO That area? If you don't T INTO it; blocking that signal line - the BC won't work. __________________ My 2007 Turbocharged RX8 Last edited by Kane; 10-16-2008 at 04:33 PM..

10-17-2008, 11:05 AM	#8
Kane All about the O2 Join Date: Sep 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 295 Rep Power: 17	Can you draw a picture or take one? Just to make sure we are saying the same thing. __________________ My 2007 Turbocharged RX8

10-15-2008, 09:45 AM	#2
cewrx7r1 The Judge Join Date: Feb 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 196 Rep Power: 17	This is how I have my Blitz EBC hooked up after trying another way. It works perfectly with no spiking. Pressure source for the EBC unit comes from the rear of the UIM near the map sensor source. You want the two to read equal pressures. Pressure source for the side of the wastegate and for the solenoid "in" comes from the TB elbow which has been tapped and "Teed". This pressure is closer to the pressure for the EBC and map sensor and less than before the IC. The solenoid out goes to the top of the WG. I use a 10lb WG spring and run 11, 13, 15, 16 psi boost as my EBC has four settings.

10-16-2008, 04:21 PM	#5
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	No the EBC I have is the AVC-R, not the GReddy or Blitz or anything else. The APEX'i directions say to T from the NC port (on the solenoid valve) to the IC piping and side of the wastegate, but that hasn't worked for me, maybe because I've been using the UIM/LIM nipples and it's not getting a consistent reading. I have the BOV vac line going to the front of the UIM next to the throttle body, shouldn't that give the same reading as the rear nipples? And I thought there were only 2 nipples on the rear of the UIM near the throttle body? Thanks for the input!

10-16-2008, 11:09 PM	#7
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	Scratch using the last two nipples on the UIM-check. For the EBC, I have a solenoid valve and a sensor, 2 lines go to the valve (NC and COM) and one goes from near the MAP sensor nipple to the sensor. Is that what you're talking about? The way I had it set up is with the line coming from the side of the WG to the T, another line going to the NC port on the solenoid, and the last line going to the IC piping. The way I have it NOW though, I swapped the line going from the WG side to that T, now it is going to the UIM near the TB and just a single line is going straight from the NC port to the IC piping. Know what I mean?

10-17-2008, 11:10 AM	#9
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	I'll see what I can do, I'm at work right now though.

10-17-2008, 04:44 PM	#11
Kane All about the O2 Join Date: Sep 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 295 Rep Power: 17	Do you have the Syncronic Wastegate? I am not 100% sure on that part; BUT I think you wanna switch those two WG lines; you want the boost to push the WG open. Other than that Vac2 looks good to me. Assuming the solenoid is hooked up on the right ports (I don't have the user manual for that). __________________ My 2007 Turbocharged RX8

10-18-2008, 02:37 AM	#12
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	No, my wastegate is an HKS 44mm. I'm not sure about switching the two on the wastegate though. I've swapped them before and if I remember right it didn't change anything. But hey, it's worth a shot haha. However, that's how all the vacuum diagrams have it. I had the solenoid hooked up wrong at first, I was using the NO port instead of the NC port.

10-19-2008, 11:06 PM	#13
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	I haven't gotten the vacuum lines routed to the filter yet, but I moved the one for the BC sensor to the rear of the UIM, along with the one for the boost gauge. The line from the side of the wastegate was already moved to the front of the UIM near the TB already. So far I've only gotten about 10-13psi when it's set to 15psi. I've forgotten to mention I don't have some things on the EBC set up, I have it set up according to Rob Robinette's directions, aside from not using .65 (9psi) as the boost setting, but 10 and 15psi on setting A and B respectively. http://robrobinette.com/boost_avc_r_install.htm

10-21-2008, 02:37 PM	#14
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	We have also noticed the wastegate is slowly bleeding off before it's supposed to. Does that sound like a familiar problem. I'm obviously no good at how to route vacuum lines lol.

10-21-2008, 02:53 PM	#15
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	just a side thought, it could be that the spring in the WG (which cant fine tune for a given PSI, is running less boost due to altitude and the boost controller is trying to do what it can. So maybe the spring is the issue? __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook