Front races question

My5ABaby · 08-02-2008, 01:11 PM

I'm putting my new races in and ran into a problem. While pressing/hammering them in, the larger set (inner?) get down to about 1 mm from meeting the surface and won't go any farther. I've tried hammering with a 2.5 lb sledge hammer and using my c-clamp press to no avail. It won't budge.

Is the gap supposed to be there?

I, for the life of me, can't remember it being there yet it seems to need to be. Any help would be super appreciated. This 1 week "replace my bushings job" has turned into a 2+ month ordeal. I'm about ready to just fucking throw every damn piece across the field.

wvumtnbkr · 08-07-2008, 02:17 PM

I work with tapered roller bearings alot in my line of work, and have never seen a "GAP" that was supposed to be there!

If you are using a tapered roller bearing, it means that there is high "side loading". This is trying to push the outer race against an immovable object (hub). In order for the bearing to support this load, it must have full contact with the immovable object (hub). If it does not, it will warp and destroy the outer race.

Remove the race, and clean up anything underneath it.

That being said, I have never done this to an FC, soooo I could be way off base (it would be very strange indeed!).

josh18_2k · 08-07-2008, 07:27 PM

i'm gonna guess that there is a burr in there.
you're supposed to clean and deburr the area before pressing in new races.

BLKTOPTRVL · 08-07-2008, 07:36 PM

Doesn't look like a big gap but... If the racetrack (pun) is clean and there are no burrs.

Stick it in a plastic garbage bag and pop it into the freezer on a level plane overnight. Next morning, if it has not dropped into place, then press it while it is still cold.

I did this years ago when I did not have a press and all the bearings I seated fell right into place.

My5ABaby · 08-08-2008, 06:42 AM

Update: I took them to get pressed in at a shop. Very very little change. They even took a couple out and looked and there were no burrs. I'm not sure what's wrong, but are they usable like that? The picture there is the largest gap. The others are smaller.

classicauto · 08-08-2008, 11:11 AM

gap shouldn't be there, somethings up. I dunno what to say....

Every time I've done I've used the welding on bolts method and when I put the new races in the hubs were still warm (and thus, probably expanded a bit being aluminum) and they've always seated where the original ones went.

but if there's nothing in the way like burs, dirt or anything else then it'll probably be fine. I'd heat them up and set the old races on top and give it a few smacks though just to be sure.

My5ABaby · 08-08-2008, 12:38 PM

It did it even heated. They put them in when the hub had been torched by a giant propane torch (me want...).

Just to clarify, would you use them as is?

classicauto · 08-08-2008, 03:16 PM

If its bottom'd out as far as it'll go..........yup.

I'd probably assembly the hub/spindle and check for any werid play and good free movement, but I'd run those babies.

misterstyx69 · 08-08-2008, 04:58 PM

I think Aaron Cake had a bit of info,But it is on the other forum(sorry,I should be Flogged!).. I do believe he had a method of getting the Races in.Personally I would ALSO use them.the only Thing that I THINK would be of concern is the Gap wearing a Slit into the Needle bearings(wheel bearing).If you have lubed the Bearing Good,then this shouldn't Happen for awhile.

Max777 · 08-08-2008, 11:21 PM

I was going to suggest cleaning it, then putting the hub in the oven, and the race in the freezer, then Use some stuff like PB Blaster for lube and it should pop right in.

Also, did you check the race itself??? Maybe get some 600 grit emery cloth and sand it a little???

My5ABaby · 08-09-2008, 06:20 PM

The machine shop used a hydraulic press after heating the hubs to the point where the race I had put in just fell out the bottom. Also, it's all 4 races. I think it has something to do with my method of putting them in (sledge hammer...) or something. Regardless, I'm going to put them on tomorrow and hopefully drive my car for the first time this summer.

Boostmaniac · 08-11-2008, 07:41 AM

Good luck man, I don't like how that looks personally. Keep us updated.

FWIW, never use a hammer on anything that needs to be pressed in, this will cause warpage or an angled load. There is no real way to even out the pressure without using a press.

My5ABaby · 08-12-2008, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boostmaniac

Good luck man, I don't like how that looks personally. Keep us updated.

FWIW, never use a hammer on anything that needs to be pressed in, this will cause warpage or an angled load. There is no real way to even out the pressure without using a press.

Yeah...

Now I need a spring scale and can't find one locally. I wonder if there's a trick to preloading the bearings without one of those.

josh18_2k · 08-12-2008, 05:15 PM

i just torqued them to 22lb-ft. the FSM says to do that, then back off, then do the spring test, but screw all that. as long as you can spin the hubs by hand, its fine. you're not gonna overtighten them. the spring test is just to make sure the wheel spins freely. if you want it to spin easier, loosen it a little. i'd rather err on teh tight side then have any slop and ruin the bearing.

08-07-2008, 07:27 PM	#3
josh18_2k Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gresham, OR iTrader: (0) Posts: 473 Rep Power: 17	i'm gonna guess that there is a burr in there. you're supposed to clean and deburr the area before pressing in new races. __________________

08-07-2008, 07:36 PM	#4
BLKTOPTRVL Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 192 Rep Power: 17	Doesn't look like a big gap but... If the racetrack (pun) is clean and there are no burrs. Stick it in a plastic garbage bag and pop it into the freezer on a level plane overnight. Next morning, if it has not dropped into place, then press it while it is still cold. I did this years ago when I did not have a press and all the bearings I seated fell right into place. __________________ ...shoot a mother-humpin moose, eight days of the week... Last edited by BLKTOPTRVL; 08-07-2008 at 07:39 PM..

08-08-2008, 06:42 AM	#5
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	Update: I took them to get pressed in at a shop. Very very little change. They even took a couple out and looked and there were no burrs. I'm not sure what's wrong, but are they usable like that? The picture there is the largest gap. The others are smaller. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

08-08-2008, 12:38 PM	#7
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	It did it even heated. They put them in when the hub had been torched by a giant propane torch (me want...). Just to clarify, would you use them as is? __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

08-08-2008, 11:21 PM	#10
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL iTrader: (5) Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 18	I was going to suggest cleaning it, then putting the hub in the oven, and the race in the freezer, then Use some stuff like PB Blaster for lube and it should pop right in. Also, did you check the race itself??? Maybe get some 600 grit emery cloth and sand it a little??? __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!

08-07-2008, 02:17 PM	#2
wvumtnbkr The Newbie Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Latrobe, Pa iTrader: (0) Posts: 17 Rep Power: 0	I work with tapered roller bearings alot in my line of work, and have never seen a "GAP" that was supposed to be there! If you are using a tapered roller bearing, it means that there is high "side loading". This is trying to push the outer race against an immovable object (hub). In order for the bearing to support this load, it must have full contact with the immovable object (hub). If it does not, it will warp and destroy the outer race. Remove the race, and clean up anything underneath it. That being said, I have never done this to an FC, soooo I could be way off base (it would be very strange indeed!).

08-08-2008, 11:11 AM	#6
classicauto crash auto?fix auto Join Date: Feb 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 816 Rep Power: 17	gap shouldn't be there, somethings up. I dunno what to say.... Every time I've done I've used the welding on bolts method and when I put the new races in the hubs were still warm (and thus, probably expanded a bit being aluminum) and they've always seated where the original ones went. but if there's nothing in the way like burs, dirt or anything else then it'll probably be fine. I'd heat them up and set the old races on top and give it a few smacks though just to be sure.

08-08-2008, 03:16 PM	#8
classicauto crash auto?fix auto Join Date: Feb 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 816 Rep Power: 17	If its bottom'd out as far as it'll go..........yup. I'd probably assembly the hub/spindle and check for any werid play and good free movement, but I'd run those babies.

08-08-2008, 04:58 PM	#9
misterstyx69 .drives like MrMagoo! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Smiths Falls,Ontario iTrader: (5) Posts: 198 Rep Power: 17	I think Aaron Cake had a bit of info,But it is on the other forum(sorry,I should be Flogged!).. I do believe he had a method of getting the Races in.Personally I would ALSO use them.the only Thing that I THINK would be of concern is the Gap wearing a Slit into the Needle bearings(wheel bearing).If you have lubed the Bearing Good,then this shouldn't Happen for awhile.

08-09-2008, 06:20 PM	#11
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	The machine shop used a hydraulic press after heating the hubs to the point where the race I had put in just fell out the bottom. Also, it's all 4 races. I think it has something to do with my method of putting them in (sledge hammer...) or something. Regardless, I'm going to put them on tomorrow and hopefully drive my car for the first time this summer. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

08-11-2008, 07:41 AM	#12
Boostmaniac Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 182 Rep Power: 0	Good luck man, I don't like how that looks personally. Keep us updated. FWIW, never use a hammer on anything that needs to be pressed in, this will cause warpage or an angled load. There is no real way to even out the pressure without using a press.

08-12-2008, 05:15 PM	#14
josh18_2k Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gresham, OR iTrader: (0) Posts: 473 Rep Power: 17	i just torqued them to 22lb-ft. the FSM says to do that, then back off, then do the spring test, but screw all that. as long as you can spin the hubs by hand, its fine. you're not gonna overtighten them. the spring test is just to make sure the wheel spins freely. if you want it to spin easier, loosen it a little. i'd rather err on teh tight side then have any slop and ruin the bearing. __________________ Last edited by josh18_2k; 08-12-2008 at 05:17 PM..