Engine Wiring 101

[Rotary Evolution]

they're fucking with you, even the cheapest builds i have to dick around with i would rather stab myself with a spoon than put a scotch lock on a car...

of course now they're going to argue that scotch locks do have a place just to prove me wrong.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by RETed

+1

I do use 3M Super 33+ when it's a last resort.
It's usually because I can't get a crimp tool due to restricted location and / or I'm too lazy or ran out of time to redo the whole thing properly...


-Ted

Super 33+ is the only one I will use, and as stated earlier, it's primarily for bundeling.... I don't use it for insulation purposes.

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Two words:

SCOTCH LOCKS!


Quality ECU instal harness NOTE: wiring conduit = professional = Australia #1 ECU for rotaries = WINNING!

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

For the purpose of this thread lets assume that all wiring is new, there are no reused connectors, and we're not splicing into a pre-existing wiring harness.

Assuming we're working with the initial items of several different spools of wire brand new connectors, and brand new ECU outs with short (if any) leads.

Generally a new ECU will come with a "harness." Some are better than others... I very much dislike the helltech harnesses & wires... I feel that the insulation is very thick which just increases the size of the bundle and makes the whole thing a bit more daunting.... Tefzel is where it's at...

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

What, specific, insulation are we looking for in the wiring? What are the good options, the bad options, and the "wtf is this doing in a VEHICLE??" options?

See above... anything bought at autosuck or any of the equivalents is pure garbage. For non engine harness wires I get the TXL from a variety of different sources.... anything engine related is Tefzel, there is a Mil-Spec number that I cannot remember but it can be purchased through Pro-Wire USA is the cheapest I've found, for the Raychem stuff as well....

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

With this in mind Brian, what would you suggest as the shopping list prior to attacking the chore of building a harness from scratch?

I'll take a picture in the next few days....

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

Obviously you're going to need wiring (suggestions on a specific brand or style to look for?),

See above as to what the ECU comes with

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

Connectors (as applicable to your individual setup),

Deutsch DTM, DT, or DTP depending on current load, the reality of it though is that you don't need very many of these... fuck... I wish TeakFC3S was still up.... fucking queen asshat did a helltech install tips thread... I puked laughter all over the place... fucking retard put in a weatherpack 6-pin connector to build a subharness for his fuel injectors... sooooo many things wrong with that... weather packs being rated for like 30A, splicing wires in a harness, soldering on little pieces of tin, breaks in the wires, zomg,.. what a loser....

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

Environmental Protection (Raychem and heat shrink, to keep the wiring protected and organized: Any suggestions on specific types and specifics?),

Raychem DR-25 is the norm. Doublelined polytolephin adhesive lined heatshrink, either a 2:1 shrink or a 4:1 shrink depending on what is being shrunk....

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

and a way to attach the wires to the connectors (suggestion on specific crimps that are worth getting, or confirmation on the one Whoop suggested, types to look for and/or avoid, etc., etc.)

To many variables, you'll be buying a few different crimpers depending on the connector....

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

I would assume the electrical tapes primary use would be for bundling wires while sliding the main sheath of raychem over the whole harness

Yes

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

What would be the correct crimpers to use in an instance like this?

Look at places like waytek and terminal supply co, they have a list of the crimps and the correct crimpers.

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

I know this is just a repeat of my previous replies, but would you go into more detail regarding what ARE the correct tools and supplies to use? (I know you've got plenty of stuff going on that takes priority, but if you could expound on the right stuff verses the wrong stuff that would be fucking awesome!!)

I will take a picture, you will ship me your car

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

My guess is that they buy their supplies in bulk, and they just have jigs made up so it's stupid easy for them to kick out looms after the first one is made..

More than likely... they are nice for the money, but there is still ALOT to do even after you get their harness....

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

This wouldn't happen to be that one I found... would it??

Yes.... it's going on CL for $2750 after I figure out what the fuck is up with it... already bought Maggie a new Jeep, mechanics special with a totally unmolested wiring harness.... only needed a rebuilt head... fucking thing is MINT

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

Not sure if you're having a laugh here . Because, well... I don't know much (read: anything) about wiring, but that seems a bit off to me... lol

Big Laugh

Originally Posted by Kontakt

^ Nope. Scotch locks are where it's at.

One adjustment though. Don't crush them with pliers. Just sorta flap the lid/latch over, and push it down with your thumb some. If you use pliers, you might damage the wires.

Originally Posted by Kontakt

Next time I see him, I'll try to remember to bring my Tri-Crimp, and see about getting an opinion on it. I have no idea how common they are outside of the radio nerd crowd.

I wanna see!!!!

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

When/why would you use them and in what capacity?

Just looking at them I, as a layman, would see them as a bulky alternative to crimping wires together. Obviously that isn't the reality of their usefulness though, else they wouldn't be suggested.

(No offense in questioning you Peter, I was honestly unsure if that was a dig against malpractice, lol)

they are totally useless

Originally Posted by Rotary Evolution

they're fucking with you, even the cheapest builds i have to dick around with i would rather stab myself with a spoon than put a scotch lock on a car...

of course now they're going to argue that scotch locks do have a place just to prove me wrong.

They have two places.... either in the trash or falling out of harness into the mouth of the person using them choking them to death.... or Peter cramming them down BDC's throat.

[TitaniumTT]

Lets put it this way.... when we redid the shitty stock harness in the Landi, $1400 ... One Thousand four hundred dollars was spent.... and not one wire was bought... I already had like 20 spools.... and all the tooling.... the DMC crimpers I have were $317 and the battery cable crimps ... and most of the others range from $80-100 each.... I have like 7 pairs of crimpers...

[Kontakt]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Super 33+ is the only one I will use, and as stated earlier, it's primarily for bundeling.... I don't use it for insulation purposes.

I keep rolls of 33+ and 88 around for different purposes. They're rarely used on wire though. 88 (heavy duty 8.5 mil) and 22 (extra heavy duty 10 mil) work a bit better for a lot of the things I actually use electrical tape for than 33+. It gets used like stretchy duct tape for things like keeping window a/c units from rattling so much. I can't say that I've ever wrapped a harness with them, though.

I wanna see!!!!

I really think you'll be fairly well impressed at the price point. The crimpers by themselves with just the PP jaws and no case are only $40, but they're no lightweights.

We'll have to do some side-by-side testing vs the "official" tools.

[chibikougan]

Link to Bosch Fuel Injector connectors male and female.

Even some other Mazda connectors.


http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/electrical-connectors/

[C. Ludwig]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Yada, yada, yada...

Now.... I'm going to throw feces at a certain green jeep......

Thanks for saving me the time.

[C. Ludwig]

For wire, I use mil-spec M22759/16 for just about everything that's being made from scratch and not using a manufacturer's flying lead. It's commonly referred to as Tefzel. Raychem Spec 44 and Spec 55 would be the next step up. There are shielded and twisted pairs of all three available. Just depends on how anal you want to get with everything. Like everything, there is hobby level that performs well and won't require a 2nd mortgage and then there is LMP spec that is complete overkill for most anything this side of La Sarthe.

www.prowireusa.com has a great selection of Tefzel, Deutsch DT* connectors, mil-spec and Deutsch Autosport connectors, shrink boots and transitions, DR25, etc. Prices are hard to beat as well. If you don't see it on the website or it says out of stock, give Joe a call and he'll hook you up.

If you need any of the stock Mazda connectors, we keep a lot of those in stock.

[C. Ludwig]

I don't even use electrical tape to bundle wires for a harness. Leaves too much residue and bulks up under the shrink. I use Kapton tape. Holds well and leaves no residue.

Here is a good write up on harness construction. http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/sq6wiringloom.html

[RETed]

Big BUCKS is an understatement!

I think this is major overkill for most hobbyist, and above and beyond Fendamonkey had in mind?


-Ted

[RICE RACING]

I can see this thread turning to shit faster than the A typical Microwreck instal with scotch locks!

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by RETed

Big BUCKS is an understatement!

I think this is major overkill for most hobbyist, and above and beyond Fendamonkey had in mind?


-Ted

Agree's fuck that! no need for anything more than some scotch locks, soldering iron and a Microwreck and some 5$ spark plugs and dildo coils of some V8 kuuunts from a forum univeristy site LOL using 16 ECU's in the wrong mode to control an air o plane jelly submarine car.

Australias #1 LOL Good enough for 8's good enough for Formula 1

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Lets put it this way.... when we redid the shitty stock harness in the Landi, $1400 ... One Thousand four hundred dollars was spent.... and not one wire was bought... I already had like 20 spools.... and all the tooling.... the DMC crimpers I have were $317 and the battery cable crimps ... and most of the others range from $80-100 each.... I have like 7 pairs of crimpers...

All could have been done with some scotch locks and a soldering iron WINNING

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by C. Ludwig

I don't even use electrical tape to bundle wires for a harness. Leaves too much residue and bulks up under the shrink. I use Kapton tape. Holds well and leaves no residue.

Here is a good write up on harness construction. http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/sq6wiringloom.html

(rbracing)So Bob is a friend of mine, he lists some cool stuff on his site and he has done more then any of the pretenders on the internest can dream about, inc racing at Le-Mans. We are both Pectel ECU runners

I agree with Ted though, some of the stuff seen there is just way over the top and nothing to do with this poor blokes thread.

Lets face it who the fuck has $25,000 worth of electronics in their cars? let alone $5,000 worth of wiring and connectors @ cost price.

LOTS of good wiring can be done for a fraction of the price and no need to go to Raychem boots or DR heat shrink etc etc etc .......

And fuck me all jesting aside there is nothing wrong with soldering so long as you know how to fucking use one!

Once good set of wire strippers, a few good crimping tools, some Deutsch connectors, some heat shrink, some braided conjuit and you can make a nice harness for a fraction of the dildo spec NASA race team spec



I think people just get way carried away with this must be Autosport connectors, cryton dildo tape, mil spec tefzel wire, fucken DCM crimpers blah blah blah blah................ nice if you are rich but not everyone is, so no need to say this is what it is and the rest is shit.

There is stuff you can do for a 1/10th of the price and for the layman hobbiest its going to last you a fucking life time!

[RICE RACING]

p.s. everyone knows scotch locks and microtech and BDC are CUUUUNTS!......... just trying to fire up the discussion

[Rotary Evolution]

from $3k+ and several month harness builds, to scotch locks, this thread covers it all.