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Rotary Tech - General Rotary Engine related tech section.. Tech section for general Rotary Engine... This includes, building 12As, 13Bs, 20Bs, Renesis, etc... |
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03-02-2012, 05:22 AM | #16 | |
Don Mega
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Quote:
That area on the leading plug is very cold (look at the amount of carbon accumulated on the spark plugs for verification of that fact) much more so than on the trailing plugs which are shielded It's just the apex seal decides to jump off the housing and this is exaggerated by crap tunes especially ones relying on methadone injection (borderline detonation machines) that are causing apex seals to bounce all over the place You see many "precision" self called "shops" wont even use new rotors let alone rotor housings in their builds and they wonder why they get odd wear patterns on the pieces of garbage they self assemble and post all over the internet and theorize as to why they get fucked up wear patterns in engines, let alone how they tune them, or what temperatures they run at.... it laughable at best, disturbing at the least.
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www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration |
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03-02-2012, 08:51 AM | #18 | |
Rotary Fanatic
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Quote:
Pete that wall temp diagram is from Yamamoto’s book, but it is very similar to those in the NSU and Mercedes papers. What I would like you all to do is to go out into your garage and grab an old housing. Now examine the water passages around the periphery. You can see how Mazda is trying to balance heat in the housing. Their plan was disrupted by the plug move. Now look back at that picture of the water flowing through the housing. Do you really want to flow more water though section #6 which by its size is depriving flow through #5? If you think higher velocity is the answer than restrict #6. We are not going to run out of flow. It increases with RPM to the point of pump cavitation (for me around 7400rpm). I realize this information is not for everyone. It will only be logical to some. It is really for those guys in the background who are quietly trying to build more dependability into their engines. You know who you are. Barry |
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03-02-2012, 12:19 PM | #19 |
Rotary Fan in Training
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Thanks Barry, now does this information hold true to the S4 and older housings as i "thought" the S4 and older housings had a bigger "gap" between the plugs?
"the home engine builder" Scott.
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ULTIMATE N/A |
03-02-2012, 01:24 PM | #20 |
Sigh.....
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The first picture appears to have the 5/6th port actuators as on an S4 N/A.
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1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present." |
03-02-2012, 04:20 PM | #21 |
Don Mega
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People need to look up conduction, convection, & radiation. Do some basic experiments of you own "at home" you will see water flow is not your problem at all.
Apex seal materials, springs, and tuning + theology to certain rubbish set ups are the single biggest reliability issues in rotaries. Use the right parts Keep the "whole motor" cool Keep the inside of it cool (correct tuning) And you will not see these carbon wings lol, be it at 200bhp or 1200bhp on a 13B (all on stock std 13B-REW rotor housings)
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www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration |
03-03-2012, 12:18 AM | #22 |
The fan hit the shit!
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I'll see if I can dig up a pair of CLR housings that had been modified for extra cooling tubes added for more cooling in this area for his road racing cars. He really has a lot of good experience and ideas for keeping motors alive! Most of his engine and race cars see no less than 7k rpm for hours on end.
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03-03-2012, 12:36 AM | #23 |
Don Mega
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There is many different things I could rate as #1 mods before fucking around with this on the internet advice of others.
That's just me though. Calling this #1 reliability mod is so off base its not even funny, not to make a point Barry but it just is. Put in a proper cooling system Put in a proper thermostat Put in proper drive pulleys Tune your car right Run the right parts on a rebuild Find a legitimate rebuilder (#1 best bit of advice) Find a rebuilder who has a running car to show what he preaches lol Run a proper ignition system Tune the car correctly If its turbocharged make sure its water injected (absolute #1 reliability mod) Don't use after market apex seals (#2 reliability mod) Don't go to BDC for anything (#1 reliability mod) Don't read anthying written by Howard Coleman (#1 reliability mod) Use the internet mostly for porn (#1 reliability mod) I've never had "carbon wings" LOL like I stated, some do, you have to question why???? probably cause they don't do any of the other basics properly???? Mis diagnosis and false conclusions abound........ welcome to forum hypothesis
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www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration |
03-03-2012, 09:58 AM | #24 |
Waffles - hmmm good
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+1 on all the stuff Rice just stated.
Heres a pic of the RB solution. I know theres some engineering time behind this as well.
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1980 GS stockport, Fat Nikki, RB Dual Facetfuel pumps, Holley regulator, RB Street port exhaust, 2GDFIS, MR2 MK I electric fans, 2G strut bar, relayed fans, lights and fuel pump, LEDs Project Fat Nikki Budget 12A rebuild Video setup < $30.00 |
03-03-2012, 10:23 AM | #25 | |
Evil Club Mod
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Quote:
http://www.rotaryengine.com/products/apexseals.htm
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Ex-King of the Loop / Captain Guardrail / Master Crab Rapist / Evil Crop Dusting Mod |
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03-03-2012, 10:40 AM | #26 |
Rotary Fanatic
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Wouldn’t it be more appropriate in a technical section ie. not the lounge, for responses to include a source supporting an opinion. For instance the effects of cooling… flow vs. velocity.
RX200013B- I am not sure when the widening of the plug spacing took place. I am more familar with 3rd Gens. Maybe someone can enlighten us. rxspeed7- I would love to see some of Carlos’ cooling modifications. He is one of our Rotary Intellects. How about the Factory Racing Engines. Here is a picture of the R26B racing housing. "The Money is No Object” project. What do their housings look like? It looks similar to the one being proposed. Well I'll be darned! Barry |
03-03-2012, 12:25 PM | #27 | |
RCC Addict
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Quote:
-Ted Last edited by RETed; 03-03-2012 at 12:30 PM.. |
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03-03-2012, 12:55 PM | #28 |
Turbo Vert
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BARRY,
Can you copy and post all the information(if you have time) that has been gone over on the "evil forum" forever ago. With all the real data, real tests, real results, real conclusions, real pictures, real sae papers ect ect. |
03-03-2012, 06:40 PM | #29 | |
Rotary Fanatic
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Quote:
Chuck Westbrook and arghx have a great collection of papers to select from under Chuck's Notes. I am not sure if it is proper for me to link the papers, but most can be found if titles are supplied. What are you looking in particular? The process for cutting perfect sideseals? Making a cold air filter box? Pre and post water/meth injection? Combustion chamber pressure tests? Two-stroke oil injection conversion with block-off plate? Port scribing tools? AFR Corrections Excel program? Waterpump mods? Oil pump and passage mods? Oil pick-up mod? Boost controller fail-safe off without AI operating wiring diagram? .....Maybe PM would be best. Barry Last edited by Barry Bordes; 03-03-2012 at 09:07 PM.. |
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03-03-2012, 07:35 PM | #30 |
Evil Club Mod
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Huh?
I only ask because a trusted engine builder raves about them. Those and the Goopy.
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Ex-King of the Loop / Captain Guardrail / Master Crab Rapist / Evil Crop Dusting Mod |