Copper water seals?

12arotary · 03-04-2010, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravity Fed

straight copper = corrosion = bad

the plastic covered electrical wire from napa works tho (plastic coating prevents corrosion). Peejay has done this in his engines a few times and it works great and withstands heavy abuse.

I did it once after I saw peejays write up on his pport it worked great, it was in a 12a I had in an 85, the engine is still running as far as I know several thousand miles later and in the hands of another owner

sickofpistons · 03-04-2010, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vex

Lol... Ted taking out the stops.

Honestly if you want to you could just use spring energized stainless steel O-ring.

It's overkill and you'll spend more money on it than other people, but you won't ever have to worry about blowing one unless the casing falls away.

Is there a site or a place that offers them so I can do some research?
Thanks

vex · 03-05-2010, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickofpistons

Is there a site or a place that offers them so I can do some research?
Thanks

Not off hand but google is your friend. But here's something to consider: do a cost benefit analysis for the seals. Dollar for dollar stock will come out on top. For instance you will need the relief measurements and need to know the compression numbers to ensure positive sealing.

When I was looking up these seals it was for a bomb (solid rocket propellant testing apparatus, not ordinance). The good was that they could withstand extreme pressures, temperatures, and enviroments. Unfortunately they also need a certain amount of pressure/force for them to create a seal. What you need to know for any specific metal seal is that force/pressure. If it's too large then you will deform and ruin an aluminum housing.

I'm honestly surprised no one has made an aluminum seal. You can get al that's not super tough, anneal it, and install. Torque it down to spec and you have a metal seal that won't damage the housing.

***TitaniumTT*** · 03-05-2010, 03:58 AM

I think you're right about ruining a housing Tyler.
I'm willing to bet the reason noone has really dealt with the solid off the self seals is that they're not continuous. There's going to be a back where one end begins/ends. To me that's a big risk for a leak. The right way to do it would be to make a casting based on a housing, and form a piece. But that's me. Frankly I don't think any thing more than stock is really needed in this case, unless there's extreme forces, or someone want to experiment, or someone is really cheap

vex · 03-05-2010, 10:05 AM

You could by-pass discontinuous seals by just cutting them out of a solid sheet, then sanding and grinding to specific tolerance. You'd still have to finish the seal even if casting it. But I don't think you could cast a seal--too small, and the metal too viscus.

RETed · 03-07-2010, 05:20 AM

Introducing ANOTHER metal into the whole environment means more the possibility of creating a "battery".
All you need is an electrolyte (wow, most coolants will do!) that allows the media to run an electrical current.
Add a corrosive factor (wow, combustion by-products can do that!), and that should eliminate almost any of the softer and more reactive metals LIKE COPPER AND ALUMINUM.
It's bad enough that you have (cast) steel / iron in there + the aluminum / stainless steel rotor housing - they are already eating themselves from the galvanic corrosion.
Using this kind of system compromises long term reliability.

Looks like you haven't done your homework - you sure you're in college? - Mazda already experimented with copper support seals to the original water jacket o-rings way back.

THEY ABANDONED IT CAUSE IT WAS NOT NECESSARY AND A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY.

So, we're down to basically a RACE ONLY set-up.
KSP Engineering has put down 700+ hp levels on soft-type seals.
NO USE OF ANY COPPER OR METAL SEALS.

why don't you ask the pro racers that have been doing this reliably for years now...
Abel Ibarra comes to mine.
Almost any of the PR guys can help you here.

-Ted

My5ABaby · 03-07-2010, 12:52 PM

I love this forum.

vex · 03-07-2010, 03:55 PM

Oh... Where is it...

12arotary · 03-07-2010, 09:47 PM

and here I liked this forum because everyone used to stay on topic and not just exchange insults

vex · 03-07-2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12arotary

and here I liked this forum because everyone used to stay on topic and not just exchange insults

Give it some time--I'm sure it will get cleaned up mod style.

13bboy · 03-07-2010, 11:24 PM

haha funny shit

12arotary · 03-08-2010, 01:23 PM

^^^well 18 gauge plastic covered speaker wire is in one of my 12a's and working great, well last time i talked to the guy i sold it to it was and that was at least 5000 miles on it

Phoenix7 · 03-08-2010, 04:35 PM

RETed · 03-09-2010, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12arotary

^^^well 18 gauge plastic covered speaker wire is in one of my 12a's and working great, well last time i talked to the guy i sold it to it was and that was at least 5000 miles on it

Interesting...
I know a guy who used the right size cotton string / cord and just cover it with RTV...

-Ted

12arotary · 03-09-2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed

Interesting...
I know a guy who used the right size cotton string / cord and just cover it with RTV...

-Ted

that seems kinda hella risky

03-05-2010, 03:58 AM	#19
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	I think you're right about ruining a housing Tyler. I'm willing to bet the reason noone has really dealt with the solid off the self seals is that they're not continuous. There's going to be a back where one end begins/ends. To me that's a big risk for a leak. The right way to do it would be to make a casting based on a housing, and form a piece. But that's me. Frankly I don't think any thing more than stock is really needed in this case, unless there's extreme forces, or someone want to experiment, or someone is really cheap __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

03-05-2010, 10:05 AM	#20
vex RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Influx. iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,113 Rep Power: 19	You could by-pass discontinuous seals by just cutting them out of a solid sheet, then sanding and grinding to specific tolerance. You'd still have to finish the seal even if casting it. But I don't think you could cast a seal--too small, and the metal too viscus. __________________ The Official FC Radiator Thread My Project Thread: Cerberus CCVT Virginia Rotary Group

03-07-2010, 12:52 PM	#22
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	I love this forum. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

03-07-2010, 03:55 PM	#23
vex RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Influx. iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,113 Rep Power: 19	Oh... Where is it... __________________ The Official FC Radiator Thread My Project Thread: Cerberus CCVT Virginia Rotary Group

03-07-2010, 09:47 PM	#24
12arotary tumor-syphilis-itis-osis Join Date: Sep 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 191 Rep Power: 17	and here I liked this forum because everyone used to stay on topic and not just exchange insults __________________ 82 300d 82 Gsl 84 b2200 Diesel 88 gxl

03-07-2010, 11:24 PM	#26
13bboy Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: australia iTrader: (0) Posts: 71 Rep Power: 15	haha funny shit

03-08-2010, 01:23 PM	#27
12arotary tumor-syphilis-itis-osis Join Date: Sep 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 191 Rep Power: 17	^^^well 18 gauge plastic covered speaker wire is in one of my 12a's and working great, well last time i talked to the guy i sold it to it was and that was at least 5000 miles on it __________________ 82 300d 82 Gsl 84 b2200 Diesel 88 gxl