Rebuild/Upgrade progress and Qs thread

[Shadow24v]

Originally Posted by djmtsu

But most people who ask questions like the OP did are not looking to spend more on engine management that they do on a car. So the MS is about the cheapest PnP that will work for what he had in mind. The Rtek has limitations, and for what he is/was doing (6 port NA), he would need the 2.0 which is as much as a used E6K/X.

I am all about the Banzai PFC kit, and a Haltech, but like I said, based on the info he gave, a custom MS was the best bet.

PS- I do not want this thread to turn into a EMS thread!!!

thanks you, thats essentially what im shooting for since im on a fairly tight budget.

i do have more questions though

1) on the rebuild, im looking at doing a hybrid: s5 rotors and intake on a mostly S4 keg, are there going to be issues during the rebuild with this plan? (i know s5 rotors require s5 c-weights)

2) does anyone have any opinions on some of the rebuild DVDs out there or know where i can find more information on the rebuild? (i have the basic idea, but i want more info)

3) Clutch/flywheel - since i will have the engine out, a clutch replacement/upgrade seems logical. with an eventual mild turbo planned (probably no more than 350hp) is there a stock engagement-like clutch that can handle that power? and at what cost?

4) Exhaust - While i can't afford the ridiculously expensive exhaust systems available now, has anyone had any success making their own header/exhaust? I'd like to have a header and exhaust on while N/A (turbo is going to take a while to plan and build) but don't have $1300 for an exhaust system. Any input on this would be great

[djmtsu]

1) You shouldn't have any problems with building a hybrid S5, S4 engine.

2) Get Kevin Landers' (Rotary Resurrection) Rebuild DVD.

3) There are alot of clutches that will suit your build. Get an Exedy, check with the vendors on this forum. You can get a good deal here.

4) Buy USED!!! Especially if you are going to go turbo later. Get a good system meant for a turbo, but use the NA header. When you are ready, the DP will bolt in place of the header.

I had a cheesy catback with an RB header and silencer. When I went turbo, I just replaced the header with an RB downpipe. Bolts right in place. Then I picked up a complete APexi N1 EVO catback used for $250 (mint condition).

You just have to be patient, save your money, and when a deal appears, jump on it!!

[Max777]

yeah, I got a mint HKS exhaust for $350 shipped!

I havent seen any other FC owners run an HKS Silent Hi-Power yet, retails for $750...

[NoDOHC]

I custom fabbed an exhaust once, it was LOUD. I ended up replacing the headers and front section with racing beat headers and presilencer and leaving the catback alone.

Basically, if you actually intend to drive this car on the street, you should either use very thick tubing and several mufflers/presilencers, or go with a pre-made exhaust.

I like racing beat because they are relatively quiet (except for the stock exhaust, which is insanely quiet).

[Shadow24v]

I was looking around and Summit has a Pacesetter header AND cat-back for about $540 + S&H (i live in OH so i can just drive to the store and save on shipping ) only question is would i need a cat delete pipe or a replacement cat with this type of setup?

Good point on keeping it quiet. I don't want it to be ricer loud but i want it to make SOME noise when i give it a boot-full.

Biggest holdup ATM is time/money. Working a lot of OT at the moment and can't make it up to my g/fs parents to work on the 7 (and my DD has a to-do mod list as well lol)

I don't suppose anyone has any feedback on a ported 6-port N/A motor? What sort of changes does this give the motor? For example, with the planned ported 6-port with an S5 rotating assembly and intake, what could this motor rev to and still conceivably make power? 8 or 9?

Also, what rpm would stock style 2-piece apex seals withstand?

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by Shadow24v

I was looking around and Summit has a Pacesetter header AND cat-back for about $540 + S&H (i live in OH so i can just drive to the store and save on shipping ) only question is would i need a cat delete pipe or a replacement cat with this type of setup?

If you want to save on shipping I'll send you a SASE and you can send me that $540 instead of wasting it on pacesetter. I'll even save you the tax that way.

Originally Posted by Shadow24v

Good point on keeping it quiet. I don't want it to be ricer loud but i want it to make SOME noise when i give it a boot-full.

Buy an RB system then or buy a RB header and build your own out of Magnaflow pieces

Originally Posted by Shadow24v

Biggest holdup ATM is time/money. Working a lot of OT at the moment and can't make it up to my g/fs parents to work on the 7 (and my DD has a to-do mod list as well lol)

If cash is the biggest hold up at this point than you shouldn't be buying parts. If you cut corners buying parts, you'll end up spending twice as much in the long run after you realize that the cheap parts you bought are cheap and you want to swap them out and buy the more expensive parts.

Originally Posted by Shadow24v

I don't suppose anyone has any feedback on a ported 6-port N/A motor? What sort of changes does this give the motor? For example, with the planned ported 6-port with an S5 rotating assembly and intake, what could this motor rev to and still conceivably make power? 8 or 9?

Also, what rpm would stock style 2-piece apex seals withstand?

NoDOHC can answer that better.

Pacesetter SUCKS canadian moose cock incase you didn't pick up on the subtleties

[Shadow24v]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

If you want to save on shipping I'll send you a SASE and you can send me that $540 instead of wasting it on pacesetter. I'll even save you the tax that way.



Buy an RB system then or buy a RB header and build your own out of Magnaflow pieces



If cash is the biggest hold up at this point than you shouldn't be buying parts. If you cut corners buying parts, you'll end up spending twice as much in the long run after you realize that the cheap parts you bought are cheap and you want to swap them out and buy the more expensive parts.

SASE? Clarification? lol As for the "cheap" parts, thats one reason i asked. if its junk, i'll wait and get the good stuff i've learned with my DD project that cheap isn't always better

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

NoDOHC can answer that better.

Pacesetter SUCKS canadian moose cock incase you didn't pick up on the subtleties

Ok, and what subtleties?

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by Shadow24v

SASE? Clarification? lol

Self-Addressed Stamped Envelope

Originally Posted by Shadow24v

As for the "cheap" parts, thats one reason i asked. if its junk, i'll wait and get the good stuff i've learned with my DD project that cheap isn't always better

It's junk. Both the header and the cat-back. I bought that shit before I had the benefit of a forum to ask these questions. The catback sounds like ass, and the paint on the header burned off in the first 5 minutes. I thought the car was on fire from it.

Originally Posted by Shadow24v

Ok, and what subtleties?

These

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

If you want to save on shipping I'll send you a SASE and you can send me that $540 instead of wasting it on pacesetter. I'll even save you the tax that way.

Pacesetter SUCKS canadian moose cock incase you didn't pick up on the subtleties

[Shadow24v]

Ahh, gotcha

Originally Posted by Shadow24v

Ok, and what subtleties?

^^ sarcasm....lol

[Shadow24v]

Ak, bought and read a REALLY GOOD book on rotaries from amazon (Street Rotary HP1549: How to Build Maximum Horsepower & Reliability into Mazda's 12a, 13b & Renesis Engines (Paperback)) and have a few more questions specifically regarding porting the 6-port.

I have only been able to find a "street-port" template for the 6-port. Is it feasible to do a half bridge of sorts on the 6-port? i.e. retain the street port on the primaries and secondaries but put a bridge on the aux ports? Would this help any on an N/A motor retaining the aux port sleeves and actuations? Also, what sort of effect would this have on the powerband? broaden the top end more? and a related question would be, when running a ported motor like this and a standalone like MS, where would i have to set the rev limit as a ballpark number? 8000?

If the above is NOT a good idea, what are some other things that can be done for power improvements on a 6-port specifically regarding porting?

Keep in mind, this is intended to me a mid N/A build with the eventual addition of a mild boost setup on S4/S5 hybrid N/A motor...

[Shadow24v]

Well, got to spend 3 days with the 7 this weekend. Got the motor pulled and almost ready to tear apart. Had to "persuade" the crank bolt to loosen up (3' breaker bar and a jammed flywheel works ) and the flywheel nut needed a 5'-6' pope on a breaker bar + gravity to finally pop it loose.

It looks like the rear seal was leaking and i found a piece of metal embedded in the flywheel side of the clutch. Also looks like the PP/FW have some discoloration to them. Can the stock flywheel be resurfaced? I'm thinking about seeing how much a rebuild kit for the trans will cost or whether to look into the miata gear set swap. Hoping to find out soon what the motor is hiding inside. (good compression but coolant/oil consumption) Any input or observations welcome

On the lookout for S5 N/A rotors/counterweights and VDI intake as the S5 motor i had lined up fell through

[Ender]

You should be able to get the flywheel resurfaced, I had my TII flywheel done.

[Shadow24v]

I thought so. But being its a stepped flywheel the dowels have to be pulled and the steps machined the same amount IIRC right?

[Ender]

I think he pulled the dowels, I don't remember if he machined the step. He might have. A good machinist who does this type of work should know.

[Shadow24v]

Got the ports back from hot tanking and made some interesting discoveries: the motor has been rebuilt before. The crank pulley bolt was lathered in blue loctite and the center iron is DEFINITELY newer than the front and rear irons. I measured the wear on the irons and the center and rear irons only came up with .002-.003 step wear max. the front iron came up with .004 step wear Is this beyond the limitations of lapping? How much can you take off the irons with lapping and still be OK? If they aren't able to be lapped due to wear, i am working on a deal for an S5 long block to use so hopefully i can use those parts...

the rotors also seem to have a lip of sorts on the back part of the apex seal groove. Is this normal wear? the apex clearances were in spec before the rotors were totally pulled apart.

Also, can you lap the housings to eliminate pitting around the water seals? (if you look at the pics, i doubt my housings are useable anyways...)


Rear Iron (notice how rusted the hose nipples are)




Center Iron (notice how new and fresh the nipples are and the general condition of the iron)


Center vs rear


Front Iron (worst step wear of .004)



Front vs center