FC3S Murray's never ending build.

FC3S Murray · 11-18-2009, 01:27 PM

UPDATE: Well I found the problem with my V-band set up: It was a combination of two things: 1) I had to shave a small section of one exhaust stud on my HKS Manifold because it was hitting this new THICKER style v-band. 2) My 100$ turbo blanket was coming apart on the bottom of the turbine housing and the wire mesh that holds the fabric together was "bonded' to my turbine housing. WTF? haha

I found this all last night when I decided to remove the turbo from the manifold thinking I was going to have the cnc my turbine weld in flange. After I pulled it and removed the blanket I test fitted my old v-band clamp and it fit VERY SNUG! Then I mounted it and found the issue with the exhst stud. I have ordered a new clamp that was the original company I got with the turbo, 5 star mfg.

I think I have ran into another problem with the turbo: When I took off my Turbo inlet duct I had a good 3-4 drops of oil accumulated in my compressor inlet. I checked on the back side of the compressor ousing and only found on little 1/2'' stained "spot" on the very bottom of the housing. Also found very light amount of oil all inside the compressor housing. SO DO I need new turbo oil seals? I am running 100+ psi oil pressure with my FD regulator AND I have a reducer type oil inlet flange for the turbo. Can't be too much pressure ya think? I do have extremley high oil pressure on start up, then after it warms up it bleeds down to stock operating pressure at idle.

I have never replaced turbo oil seals so I hope it is not to involved...

I have also decided to ditch the turbo blanket and get the turbine housing cermanic coated(cost just as much for a high dollar blanket...score!)

I also have the suspenion torn apart as I speak. I have removed all bushings BUT the rear trailing arm bushings on the subframe. I dont want to drop the subframe...I am lazy plus they looked good, actually the front control arm rear busing looked GREAT. Poly is better anyway.

All new BLACK Energy Suspension bushings are ready to be installed once I get in my Racing Beat front Sway bar.

I am wondering if I should just upgrade the rear bar too since the front will be extremly stiff now and undoubtedly I will have understeer with the front upgrade only. ???? Any input guys?

I also purchased some 5mm spacers for my front hubs since my tires are rubbing on my Tanabe GF210's. Enough rubbing to have stripped the paint off the springs. 5mm should do the job. If my wheels don't sell I am powder coating them this January.

Thats it for now.

FC3S Murray · 11-18-2009, 08:18 PM

Just talked to Turbonetics and they said that light oil in the compressor is acceptable. I also saw on their website that oil feed restrictors are not advised. On the phone I explianed that my set up reaches 100+ psi and they then said a restirictor is needed, I have been running one since I bought the turbo.

I have not took this turbo off since the rebuild so...that means I have put about 1100 miles on the trubo with no boost except for atmospheric runs. I wonder if that is enough mileage to accumulate the amount of oil I found inside the compressor?.?.?

All my feed and drian line sizes are good, -4 an feed and -10 drain so that isn't the problem.

I wonder if I still have too high of crank case pressure with my catch can? I obvisouly havn't been in boost yet so I doubt this is the issue. hmmm?

FC3S Murray · 11-18-2009, 10:44 PM

Here are some pics of the oil I have found. I am awaiting Turbonetics technical board to tell me if it is bad AND if I can rebuild it. Apparently the ball bearing turbos have to be built by them for balancing purposes.

You can see the oil/air flow swirls on the housing and back plate. I even looked in my intercooler charge pipe off of the turbo and there is the same noticable residue/swirl.

Always something

FC3S Murray · 11-19-2009, 03:54 PM

so Turbonetics contacted me and said it is ok. The problem could be from my -10AN 90 Degree fitting for my oil drian from the turbo. It is the only option I have for an angled fitting, a 45 degree fitting would cause a slight incline on the way to the front cover fitting and would result in oil pooling.

I guess I will inspect the comp housing evry now and then and see if it worsens. I have no smoke at idle and had NO SMOKE on WOT pulls on my last motor so the turbo oil seals are fine. If they are going out I will soon find ouy come WOT tuning time.

Good news BUT I am slightly annoyed that this is acceptable. I don't like leaks or "seeps" period!!

***TitaniumTT*** · 11-20-2009, 09:48 AM

Damn Sean, that blows. I thought one of the main advantages of the BB turbo's was the LACK of seepage? I might put a call into Garrett or a few turbo rebuilders and see what their input is on the whole thing.

FC3S Murray · 11-20-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Damn Sean, that blows. I thought one of the main advantages of the BB turbo's was the LACK of seepage? I might put a call into Garrett or a few turbo rebuilders and see what their input is on the whole thing.

Well thing is it is NOT a ball bearing. Apparently it is one of the very early 62-1 Turbonetics produced. To verify all I had to do was look up the turbo oil drain flange and if I spotted a hole in the casting with "shiney metal" behind it, it was a ball bearing. Mine just had the cast iron around the entire turbo shaft. So I wonder in regards to what you said Brian if seepage is normal on normal bearing turbos??

ANOTHER CHANGE: I was going to get my turbine housing ceraminc coated but I have done some research and it seems that ceramic coating only benefits race cars since they have well ventilated engine bays to scavange heat. Ceramic coating is good for heat insulation BUT doesn't reduce engine bay temps near as much as a blanket. I on the other hand want to reduce under hood temps and that is the soul purpose of the blanket.

This Ebay Blanket I purchased last year worked AWESOME only draw back is I have to install it after I put my DP on my turbo.The reason mine went tits up was because of the constant removal/install of my downpipe really takes a toll on that fabric once it has seen high temps. PLUS constantly pushing it out of the way to make my V-band secure to the back side of my turbo fucked up the fabric around the metal eyelets. I will need to install my new blanket once I have the DP mated to the turbo. If I ever need to remove my DP I will then have to cut the safety wire used to snug to blanket down and carefully remove..........WOW that was long winded haha

Add another 110.00 to my FC deposit. Worth it though.

***TitaniumTT*** · 11-20-2009, 10:33 PM

Yeah, small amounts of seepage and blowby is acceptable. Puddles are a bad thing though :ROFL:

Another thing to consider when ceramic coating, mainly on like a compressor housing, is that you want the thing to vent heat, not contain it.

IMHO - like you said, a blanket and some header wrap would be a lot better at reducing the underhood temps than ceramic coating. We can shoot a lazer temp probe at my mani and it will read much hotter than what your car would be doing with a blanket...... note to self - build a LIM heatshield over the winter

Thanks Sean, more work

FC3S Murray · 11-21-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

note to self - build a LIM heatshield over the winter

Thanks Sean, more work

HAHA you are welcome. Heatshield and DIY reflective tape should do the trick for your LIM. I made my own heat shield AND coated the entire lower portion of the LIM with reflective heat tape. Works wonders.

FC3S Murray · 11-21-2009, 12:30 PM

heat tape

***TitaniumTT*** · 11-21-2009, 01:47 PM

Nice Sean! Thanks clean! Really clean.... I likey

FC3S Murray · 11-21-2009, 08:51 PM

Thanks man! I was happy once it was finished. Just got the sheet metal from good old ACE in .032'' and used some avaition shears.

**one note: to secure the bottom of the long shield that is secured by the UIM nut, I rounded the bottom edge(look closley in the first pic) and drilled a hole where the front rotor housing exhaust manifold stud is. Then you can get a ratcheting 14mm wrench down there to snug another 14mm nut tight over the shield to keep it flopping around.

Total cost was like 40.00 with DIY heat shielding matting included.

I am SURE you will conjure up something sweet.

BTW Does anyone know which way the rear swaybar endlinks go: Larger bushing eyelet up or down? My FC had one side oppisite the other WTF??

project86 · 11-22-2009, 02:43 AM

doesnt the fsm have that in it?

FC3S Murray · 11-22-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86

doesnt the fsm have that in it?

Nope, very lame. One end of the endlinks has a yellow dot on top BUT the fsm fails to specify which way up or down...

Max777 · 11-22-2009, 03:05 PM

Where did you get the "heat shielding" tape from?

A did a few runs out in the country the other day, and after I got back home, popped the hood and the turbine housing was glowing a dull red.... After seeing that I really like the heat shield tape idea. I dunno if I can cram a shield in between the stock S4 turbo, through...

FC3S Murray · 11-22-2009, 05:18 PM

Jegs or Summit have it. I even think Checker Auto or O'Rielly's has the DEI products.

11-18-2009, 01:27 PM	#271
FC3S Murray frustrated! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Montana iTrader: (3) Posts: 611 Rep Power: 16	UPDATE: Well I found the problem with my V-band set up: It was a combination of two things: 1) I had to shave a small section of one exhaust stud on my HKS Manifold because it was hitting this new THICKER style v-band. 2) My 100$ turbo blanket was coming apart on the bottom of the turbine housing and the wire mesh that holds the fabric together was "bonded' to my turbine housing. WTF? haha I found this all last night when I decided to remove the turbo from the manifold thinking I was going to have the cnc my turbine weld in flange. After I pulled it and removed the blanket I test fitted my old v-band clamp and it fit VERY SNUG! Then I mounted it and found the issue with the exhst stud. I have ordered a new clamp that was the original company I got with the turbo, 5 star mfg. I think I have ran into another problem with the turbo: When I took off my Turbo inlet duct I had a good 3-4 drops of oil accumulated in my compressor inlet. I checked on the back side of the compressor ousing and only found on little 1/2'' stained "spot" on the very bottom of the housing. Also found very light amount of oil all inside the compressor housing. SO DO I need new turbo oil seals? I am running 100+ psi oil pressure with my FD regulator AND I have a reducer type oil inlet flange for the turbo. Can't be too much pressure ya think? I do have extremley high oil pressure on start up, then after it warms up it bleeds down to stock operating pressure at idle. I have never replaced turbo oil seals so I hope it is not to involved... I have also decided to ditch the turbo blanket and get the turbine housing cermanic coated(cost just as much for a high dollar blanket...score!) I also have the suspenion torn apart as I speak. I have removed all bushings BUT the rear trailing arm bushings on the subframe. I dont want to drop the subframe...I am lazy plus they looked good, actually the front control arm rear busing looked GREAT. Poly is better anyway. All new BLACK Energy Suspension bushings are ready to be installed once I get in my Racing Beat front Sway bar. I am wondering if I should just upgrade the rear bar too since the front will be extremly stiff now and undoubtedly I will have understeer with the front upgrade only. ???? Any input guys? I also purchased some 5mm spacers for my front hubs since my tires are rubbing on my Tanabe GF210's. Enough rubbing to have stripped the paint off the springs. 5mm should do the job. If my wheels don't sell I am powder coating them this January. Thats it for now. __________________ Same pig, new soul Last edited by FC3S Murray; 11-18-2009 at 01:32 PM..

11-18-2009, 08:18 PM	#272
FC3S Murray frustrated! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Montana iTrader: (3) Posts: 611 Rep Power: 16	Just talked to Turbonetics and they said that light oil in the compressor is acceptable. I also saw on their website that oil feed restrictors are not advised. On the phone I explianed that my set up reaches 100+ psi and they then said a restirictor is needed, I have been running one since I bought the turbo. I have not took this turbo off since the rebuild so...that means I have put about 1100 miles on the trubo with no boost except for atmospheric runs. I wonder if that is enough mileage to accumulate the amount of oil I found inside the compressor?.?.? All my feed and drian line sizes are good, -4 an feed and -10 drain so that isn't the problem. I wonder if I still have too high of crank case pressure with my catch can? I obvisouly havn't been in boost yet so I doubt this is the issue. hmmm? __________________ Same pig, new soul

11-19-2009, 03:54 PM	#274
FC3S Murray frustrated! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Montana iTrader: (3) Posts: 611 Rep Power: 16	so Turbonetics contacted me and said it is ok. The problem could be from my -10AN 90 Degree fitting for my oil drian from the turbo. It is the only option I have for an angled fitting, a 45 degree fitting would cause a slight incline on the way to the front cover fitting and would result in oil pooling. I guess I will inspect the comp housing evry now and then and see if it worsens. I have no smoke at idle and had NO SMOKE on WOT pulls on my last motor so the turbo oil seals are fine. If they are going out I will soon find ouy come WOT tuning time. Good news BUT I am slightly annoyed that this is acceptable. I don't like leaks or "seeps" period!! __________________ Same pig, new soul

11-20-2009, 09:48 AM	#275
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Damn Sean, that blows. I thought one of the main advantages of the BB turbo's was the LACK of seepage? I might put a call into Garrett or a few turbo rebuilders and see what their input is on the whole thing. __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

11-20-2009, 10:33 PM	#277
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Yeah, small amounts of seepage and blowby is acceptable. Puddles are a bad thing though :ROFL: Another thing to consider when ceramic coating, mainly on like a compressor housing, is that you want the thing to vent heat, not contain it. IMHO - like you said, a blanket and some header wrap would be a lot better at reducing the underhood temps than ceramic coating. We can shoot a lazer temp probe at my mani and it will read much hotter than what your car would be doing with a blanket...... note to self - build a LIM heatshield over the winter Thanks Sean, more work __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

11-21-2009, 01:47 PM	#280
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Nice Sean! Thanks clean! Really clean.... I likey __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

11-21-2009, 08:51 PM	#281
FC3S Murray frustrated! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Montana iTrader: (3) Posts: 611 Rep Power: 16	Thanks man! I was happy once it was finished. Just got the sheet metal from good old ACE in .032'' and used some avaition shears. *one note: to secure the bottom of the long shield that is secured by the UIM nut, I rounded the bottom edge(look closley in the first pic) and drilled a hole where the front rotor housing exhaust manifold stud is. Then you can get a ratcheting 14mm wrench down there to snug another 14mm nut tight over the shield to keep it flopping around. Total cost was like 40.00 with DIY heat shielding matting included. I am SURE you will conjure up something sweet. BTW Does anyone know which way the rear swaybar endlinks go: Larger bushing eyelet up or down? My FC had one side oppisite the other WTF?? __________________ Same pig, new soul Last edited by FC3S Murray; 11-21-2009 at 10:51 PM..*

11-22-2009, 02:43 AM	#282
project86 Can't.Make.Up.My.Mind. Join Date: May 2009 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (3) Posts: 1,377 Rep Power: 17	doesnt the fsm have that in it? __________________ '90 GTUs Stay up to date with my photography '06 Toyota Highlander Hybrid '10 Toyota Prius "Initial Success or Total Failure"

11-22-2009, 03:05 PM	#284
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL iTrader: (5) Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 18	Where did you get the "heat shielding" tape from? A did a few runs out in the country the other day, and after I got back home, popped the hood and the turbine housing was glowing a dull red.... After seeing that I really like the heat shield tape idea. I dunno if I can cram a shield in between the stock S4 turbo, through... __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!

11-22-2009, 05:18 PM	#285
FC3S Murray frustrated! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Montana iTrader: (3) Posts: 611 Rep Power: 16	Jegs or Summit have it. I even think Checker Auto or O'Rielly's has the DEI products. __________________ Same pig, new soul Last edited by FC3S Murray; 01-23-2010 at 07:39 PM..