Crazy NA engines

PercentSevenC · 02-18-2009, 12:06 AM

Well, mostly NA anyway. Many of you have probably already seen it, but those who haven't really need to check out this thread over on AusRotary. I get a kick out of it every time I see it, and find it inspiring. Gives a good visual idea of some of the really aggressive porting styles.

A few of my favorites:

I like big ports and I cannot lie.

rotorhead87 · 02-18-2009, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PercentSevenC

I like big ports and I cannot lie.

Amen to that brotha! That PP 3 rotor is absolutely no less than a nasty bad SOB.

Jeff20B · 02-18-2009, 08:11 PM

If you were to do a multi-rotor engine, would you want to do peripheral ports only? Or bother with side ports for better low end driveability? You know having four rotors will help driveability even with p-ports.

I feel there is no need to complicate things with side port primaries in the age of fuel injection. Even MFR ports can idle at 1000 with only two rotors. The work peejay has been doing with efi and p-ports is very enouraging. If I were to do a 4 rotor, I'd go with p-ports of a decent size only. No sense messing around with side ports. It was a cool idea, but it's time to get realistico comprendo.

Whizbang · 02-18-2009, 08:34 PM

Peejays engine sat in my shop for quite sometime once pulled it. Biggest issues we had with it was the older than hell MS wasn't able to keep up with the demands of the engine and the stock dist. did ignition.

For instance we could not get it to enrichen fast enough on that old 'squirt. Plus no real timing controls made this a compromise.

Other issue was the intake runners were not big enough. It still pulled vacuum at WOT.

FerociousP · 02-18-2009, 09:07 PM

don't you plug up the stock ports on a p-port?

My5ABaby · 02-18-2009, 09:38 PM

I like Judge Ito's bridge ported semi pp.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2...mipportev2.jpg

Jeff20B · 02-18-2009, 10:09 PM

Wow, it still pulled vacuum at wide open throttle? That's um that's horrible.

And here I thought I could get away with a modestly sized (that means small by MFR standards) p-port. Well screw that. I'll go for MFR sized or close to it, and at least the high res code.

What I know about MegaSquirt is on the classic CPU and the 2.2 board on my 20B. Totally stock unopened high mileage about ready to break a couple apex seals due to seal slop early pre-letter code engine. It could idle and accelerate well up to 5k where the smallish stock ports start to become a bottleneck and my lack of tuning and a small exhaust made themselves apparent. I had it control ignition so I didn't have to run a distributor. It was a steep learning curve but I bet I could get one to control a 4 rotor p-port and have it idle acceptibly. Any thoughts for injector size and type? I have several FC NA engines I could harvest for rotors and injectors. Two 460 injectors per rotor has a nice ring to it.

Whizbang · 02-18-2009, 10:16 PM

yea the intake system just wasnt big enough or something. The throttle bodies where the dual ford truck style.

As far as the driving goes, i usually drove while he tuned. It was pretty well behaved for being a real rough tune. The biggest problem was that when you stepped on it, there would a nasty hesitation then it would get going. As far as power goes, it wasnt too bad but i think it need way more tuning. Plus, as stated, it pulled 88 mPa at best when atmospheric was like 96. So there was some room for improvement.

PercentSevenC · 02-18-2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FerociousP

don't you plug up the stock ports on a p-port?

Nothing says you have to.

There are a bunch of semi-PP engines in that thread. The fastest guys from Puerto Rico are almost all running semi-peripheral port setups.

Jeff: I think you're right, and I think a pair of 460s per rotor should do the trick, assuming we can get enough good ones out of those engines.

Jeff20B · 02-18-2009, 11:20 PM

Right, that's 16. There are also four more in the box from the torn down one. I think we'll have enough, assuming most are still good.

Hmm, what if we can use secondaries only or primaries only due to fitment issues? Out of 20 total, that leaves us with five sets of each type or ten secs and ten pris. Assuming one has gone bad in each batch, we're still good, if one engine can get away with secs and the other with pris.

Having lots of parts is great if you know what to do with them.

Jeff20B · 02-19-2009, 12:04 AM

Speaking of which, looks like two pris and two secs need to go to the white truck. Assuming all the injectors are good, that leaves us with just enough to pull this off.

PercentSevenC · 02-19-2009, 12:45 AM

On the subject of semi-peripheral ports:

And a Miata with a carbed semi-peripheral 13B:

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/P...te-a_83687.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/P...th-a_83671.htm

02-18-2009, 08:34 PM	#4
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	Peejays engine sat in my shop for quite sometime once pulled it. Biggest issues we had with it was the older than hell MS wasn't able to keep up with the demands of the engine and the stock dist. did ignition. For instance we could not get it to enrichen fast enough on that old 'squirt. Plus no real timing controls made this a compromise. Other issue was the intake runners were not big enough. It still pulled vacuum at WOT. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

02-18-2009, 09:07 PM	#5
FerociousP I-had-a-bad-experience... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: M'boro iTrader: (2) Posts: 1,046 Rep Power: 18	don't you plug up the stock ports on a p-port? __________________ '15 Juke Nismo '06 MX-5 GT SOLD '04 S Silver RX-8 GT Track Day Use SOLD '90 Black TII vert w/ Sprint RE stock port/turbo DD dyno (242.6whp@5500rpm @12psi 8psi@redline) and (250ftlbtq@4800rpm @13psi) SOLD '89 GTUs 6p TII SOLD, '87 sport SOLD, '79 SA stock SOLD '91 B2600i 4x4 w/ Rx-8 LSD SOLD

02-18-2009, 09:38 PM	#6
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	I like Judge Ito's bridge ported semi pp. http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2...mipportev2.jpg __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

02-18-2009, 10:16 PM	#8
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	yea the intake system just wasnt big enough or something. The throttle bodies where the dual ford truck style. As far as the driving goes, i usually drove while he tuned. It was pretty well behaved for being a real rough tune. The biggest problem was that when you stepped on it, there would a nasty hesitation then it would get going. As far as power goes, it wasnt too bad but i think it need way more tuning. Plus, as stated, it pulled 88 mPa at best when atmospheric was like 96. So there was some room for improvement. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

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02-18-2009, 08:11 PM	#3
Jeff20B Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (1) Posts: 215 Rep Power: 17	If you were to do a multi-rotor engine, would you want to do peripheral ports only? Or bother with side ports for better low end driveability? You know having four rotors will help driveability even with p-ports. I feel there is no need to complicate things with side port primaries in the age of fuel injection. Even MFR ports can idle at 1000 with only two rotors. The work peejay has been doing with efi and p-ports is very enouraging. If I were to do a 4 rotor, I'd go with p-ports of a decent size only. No sense messing around with side ports. It was a cool idea, but it's time to get realistico comprendo.

02-18-2009, 10:09 PM	#7
Jeff20B Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (1) Posts: 215 Rep Power: 17	Wow, it still pulled vacuum at wide open throttle? That's um that's horrible. And here I thought I could get away with a modestly sized (that means small by MFR standards) p-port. Well screw that. I'll go for MFR sized or close to it, and at least the high res code. What I know about MegaSquirt is on the classic CPU and the 2.2 board on my 20B. Totally stock unopened high mileage about ready to break a couple apex seals due to seal slop early pre-letter code engine. It could idle and accelerate well up to 5k where the smallish stock ports start to become a bottleneck and my lack of tuning and a small exhaust made themselves apparent. I had it control ignition so I didn't have to run a distributor. It was a steep learning curve but I bet I could get one to control a 4 rotor p-port and have it idle acceptibly. Any thoughts for injector size and type? I have several FC NA engines I could harvest for rotors and injectors. Two 460 injectors per rotor has a nice ring to it.

02-18-2009, 11:20 PM	#10
Jeff20B Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (1) Posts: 215 Rep Power: 17	Right, that's 16. There are also four more in the box from the torn down one. I think we'll have enough, assuming most are still good. Hmm, what if we can use secondaries only or primaries only due to fitment issues? Out of 20 total, that leaves us with five sets of each type or ten secs and ten pris. Assuming one has gone bad in each batch, we're still good, if one engine can get away with secs and the other with pris. Having lots of parts is great if you know what to do with them.

02-19-2009, 12:04 AM	#11
Jeff20B Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (1) Posts: 215 Rep Power: 17	Speaking of which, looks like two pris and two secs need to go to the white truck. Assuming all the injectors are good, that leaves us with just enough to pull this off.