no idea wtf is goin on at cold start

[rx865]

So about an hour ago im leaving my buddy's house and when I go to start the car it takes a little longer to start than normal, then the rpm's climb a little bit and then drop off to below 1k rpms and it starts to bog a little and the rpms shoot back up to normal idling range and I get a flashing check engine light the flashing CEL then turns into a solid CEL. My car has 107k miles on it and I highly doubt the ignition coils have been replaced ever. Has anyone else had a problem similar to this? It also only happens with cold starting apparently. I let it warm up and drove it around and shut it off numerous times when it was warm and had no issues starting and was running smooth. Im really hoping I havent lost compression and its a misfire code or something. If anyone has had something like this happen please let me know and what you did to fix it. Thanks

[djmtsu]

The flashing CEL is a misfire.

Check your plugs, wires, and especially your coils. Mine had the same issue. I put in OEM plugs and coils, and bought the Racing Beat wires. Haven't had the problem since.

[rx865]

yea its CEL code P0300 which is a multiple misfire. I will check out the plugs, coils, and wires. Thanks djmtsu

[reddozen]

yea, factory coils are bad about burning out.

I got the black halo racing replacements.

[rx865]

Originally Posted by reddozen

yea, factory coils are bad about burning out.

I got the black halo racing replacements.

Im considering those as well. Maybe some racing beat wires, BHR ignition upgrade, and just have mazda put the OEM spark plugs back in. Im gonna see if its just the plugs or if it is the coils first then decide what to do. If it's the coils im ordering BHR's for sure. What are some advantages of the BHR coils? Ive never actually spoken to anyone that has them installed and would like to know what the advantages are before i shell out the $ for them.

[djmtsu]

The BHR coils are GM LS series coils. They are supposed to provide more spark, and are cheaper to replace (although barely). The good thing is, replacements can be bought from any parts store.

There has been some question thought as to whether they can keep up with the Renesis demands at high RPM levels. But, regardless, they are better than stock.

I am close at work to getting OE coils for RX-8's.....alot cheaper.

[rx865]

Ya im just going to go with the OEM coils. I know a few vendors on rx8club.com can get them for around 30 bucks a coil as opposed to the 85 a coil mazda charges. Another symptom of my car's illness is an excessive amount of WHITE smoke. There is no color in it. No blue or black and I have no idea what the cause of it is.

EDIT: burning coolant in the combustion chamber is the white smoke and has a semi sweet smell to it. Looks like I have a bad apex seal somewhere in there and will probly be getting a new engine as well as trans soon.

[Kentetsu]

I don't own an 8, and have absolutely no experience with them, so I don't hang out in this section much. But in many aspects, a rotary is a rotary, if you know what I mean.

Burning coolant would be due to a bad coolant seal, not an apex seal.

Also, here is something that I have found in regards to this issue: A couple of years ago I lost an apex seal in my 12a after 213,000 miles. I picked up a used 12a as a replacement, which reportedly had about 70k on it.

I had a couple of friends assisting with the swap, and due to some bad info we ended up putting the wrong weighted flywheel on it. So a few days later I had to pull the motor again and fix that. So, motor goes back in again, and once it warmed up it started pumping the coolant straight out of the tail pipe. Serious, serious clouds of white smoke. I had neighbors coming over to make sure that the garage wasn't on fire.

So then I was faced with having to pull that damn motor once again, then finding another replacement. I was not happy, to say the least. So I began searching for alternatives. I read up on a method involving block sealant, but you had to clean the system out like 5 times, use the stuff, then clean the system out another 10 times, and it would sometimes work. Well, I figured there had to be a better way.

I spent a day researching different products, and found a radiator sealant that was based on aluminum flakes. I liked the idea of using aluminum, because when it is flaked it is very flammable (explosive, actually). So if any of the product found it's way into the combustion area, it wouldn't just sit around in there grinding away and causing more issues.

So I paid less than $4.00 for a bottle of the stuff at Autozone (Alumaseal) and dumped it into the radiator and then topped it off. I started the car up and began the process of letting it idle until warm, waiting for the product to start circulating. Once the thermostat opened up, the clouds of smoke began again just like before. But then, I started to see signs of improvement.

After about 15 minutes, I saw about a 50% reduction. After 30 minutes of idling, it was good enough that I could have driven the car without causing accidents behind me. After 45 minutes, just a trace, so I took topped off the radiator and went for a short drive of just a few miles, and by the time I got home the motor was fine. I checked the water level in the radiator, and it was still full.

Well, that was over two years ago, and that motor is still absolutely fine. I daily drive the car, and race it on most weekends, and I've put nearly 20,000 miles on it. The heater still works, it didn't get clogged up, and the product didn't eat up the bearings in my water pump either like I've experiences with other products on boinger motors in the past.

I even drove down to the DGRR meets two years in a row, again, without any problems. This past trip, I put 2,400 miles on the car over the course of 5 days.

I have helped other forum members with blown coolant seals by recommending this method/product, and we met with success 11 out of 12 times.

The only thing to keep in mind is that the majority of these were 1st gen cars, with a handful of 2nd gens. So I don't know if there might be some special detail about the Renesis motor that would preclude this method. But either way, I figured it was something worth mentioning.

And like I tell everyone when we discuss this, make sure that you buy the right stuff for the job. The name is Alumaseal. If you get something else, especially something containing copper or brass, I wouldn't be surprised if you created more problems than you fixed.

Anyway, this might be something to consider in your situation. Hope this helps.








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[rx865]

Thank you for the advice. I had read up on the white smoke problem on an rx8 forum and a bunch of people had to get new apex seals/motor because coolant was leaking into the combustion chamber. Idk if this is my problem, i hope it is not tho. Again thanks to everyone so far who has given me some advice.

[djmtsu]

Dude, listen here.

I had the exact same problems when I bought my RX-8. It is not a big deal. The Renesis is just a 13B when it comes down to it.

Kenetsu is heading the right direction with the additive, but I found something better. Bars Leaks makes a Ceramic Head Gasket Repair in a bottle. It is about $30, and works AWESOME. Although the Alumaseal is good, and works, it still has metal particulate in it. You don't want that in your combustion chambers. The Ceramic stuff is silicate glass, and will not damage the rotor housings.

Trust me on this, I did mine right after DGRR, and it has been holding strong ever since. Have not lost ANY coolant, and no more smoke or startup issues.

Mine was so bad, that after sitting overnight, the spark plugs would be wet with coolant.

I picked up my bottle at the local Advance Auto Parts.

[rx865]

^
very good point about the 13b. I will try that stuff. Thanks alot guys

[Kentetsu]

Originally Posted by djmtsu

Dude, listen here.

I had the exact same problems when I bought my RX-8. It is not a big deal. The Renesis is just a 13B when it comes down to it.

Kenetsu is heading the right direction with the additive, but I found something better. Bars Leaks makes a Ceramic Head Gasket Repair in a bottle. It is about $30, and works AWESOME. Although the Alumaseal is good, and works, it still has metal particulate in it. You don't want that in your combustion chambers. The Ceramic stuff is silicate glass, and will not damage the rotor housings.

Trust me on this, I did mine right after DGRR, and it has been holding strong ever since. Have not lost ANY coolant, and no more smoke or startup issues.

Mine was so bad, that after sitting overnight, the spark plugs would be wet with coolant.

I picked up my bottle at the local Advance Auto Parts.

Yes, the Alumaseal has metal particles in it, but as I said, aluminum is highly flammable so if a particle makes it in it will just combust. Are glass particles?

Also, how do you know that what you used works better? My stuff worked, your stuff worked. Sounds like we've both completely solved our issue. I did it for $4 and you did it for $30.

And one last thing, I've got many thousands of miles on my repair, so I win.

Anyway, I'm just messing with you man. I'm glad you found a way to cure the issue. But when I read that part about glass particles it reminded me of the "liquid glass" that they were using to destroy motors as part of the cash for clunkers deal.

And why does everyone spell my name as Kenetsu? lol

[rx865]

well I got in my car to take it to mazda earlier and my car wouldn't start. Getting it towed tomorrow morning

[philthyfil]

i have the white smoke thing in my 8, but it started after i put on the race pipe from racing beat and it smells like 2stroke exhaust because of the burnt oil, i thought that was normal? has anyone heard of that happening or should i now be worried?

[djmtsu]

Originally Posted by rx865

well I got in my car to take it to mazda earlier and my car wouldn't start. Getting it towed tomorrow morning

Hold the pedal to the floor, and crank it for 10 seconds. Switch the key off. Try to start it again without the touching the pedal.

See if that works. You might have coolant in the housings, preventing ignition.