FC (coupe) stereo options? Little help.

[djmtsu]

I have a couple of questions guys. I am not a car stereo guru (I can install and wire them just fine) but as far as what is ideal, I need some help.

Currently, I have some POS system:
-Pioneer CD/MP3 player
-Pioneer 6.5" shitty door speakers
-Infinity 4" dash speakers
-OLD Sony 5.25" out back

All the speaker wiring is stand alone, I didn't want to hack the factory system with all the amps, and possibly get distortion.

It sounds like crap. I have the 4 front speakers spliced together, and the rears off of rear channel.

I am looking for another head unit (has to be DIN, I have a gauge panel), reasonably priced, has to have iPod built in. The door speakers and rear speakers need to be replaced as well. I prefer Sony, just because it has never done me wrong. I have a decent Sony HU in the Miata with the iPod cable, and it works OK, but not ideal as far as navigating playlists.

What do you guys recommend? I am not trying to spend alot of money here. I do not drive the car alot, but I want it to sound decent. I do have a 250W amp and 10" JL sub I can install, but I do not need it, and that shit is heavy!

Anyone?

[Turbo II]

I don't know much about this stuff either but I just recently spent countless hours on Crutchfield, eBay, Best Buy and who knows how many other sites driving myself crazy and then also visited several stereo shops and Best Buy to actually check out the units so I could replaced my old Clarion DXZ745 that was having display problems. I finally went with an Alpine CDA-105. I also added an HD tuner to it. I'm extremely happy with the HU but I'm not doing the iPod or USB type stuff, yet, so I can't really comment on that part.

It seemed like just about everything I looked at had USB, iPod, HD capability and so on. Some units had the connections in the front and others in the rear, which I thought was a better choice so you can run cables to inside the glove box to keep things hidden. One factor you may want to consider also is how much information you want to be able to see on screen from the device you're using. I think they can be from one line to 4 lines depending on the manufacturer on a DIN unit. Navigation will also vary quite a bit from what I read in reviews as far how they read files and folders and how big those files and folders can be. Anyway, Crutchfield was great for reading reviews and stuff on what they carried so it might be a good place to start. You can even input your car and have it pull up what works and what doesn't. Best Buy really doesn't give nearly as much detail but the reviews helped some even though I didn't give them quite as much weight as places like Crutchfield.


I'm still running my Memphis Power Reference speakers in the door and rear but I've been thinking about upgrading the rear speakers to 6 1/2" since it looks like they will fit with no problem. I have no idea right now if I will stay with the same brand or not if I do upgrade them. Like I said I drove myself crazy on the HU, I need to recuperate first!

[djmtsu]

Yeah I spent some time looking around at Crutchfield as well. They usually have some good info.

The iPod connection is a must, and it also needs to be in the rear with a cable (like I have it in the Miata). I am not concerned with an HD tuner. I do know I want to put some 6 1/2's in the rear. Better midrange and bass tones.

I would like some info on how to wire the speakers properly so that they sound better. I think just splicing the 4 fronts together is not ideal.

[Turbo II]

Not much you can do except wire them for a 2 or 8 ohm load if you use all 4 front speakers (2 left and 2 right). A 2 ohm load I think would be a better load and should be fine for any HU. So wire them them in parallel on each side.



2 8ohm speakers in parallel = 4ohm load
2 4ohm speakers in parallel = 2ohm load
2 2ohm speakers in parallel = blown amp

[djmtsu]

That is how they are now.

I guess the combination of shitty speakers and a shitty HU make it sound.......shitty.

[Turbo II]

Well shit, ain't that some shit.

I'm having the same thought on the 6 1/2 for the rear. What I have sounds good but I think, like you said, just going up one size would be a noticeable improvement on the bass and midrange.

[RETed]

Wow, since when head units were 2-ohm stable per channel?
Running a pair of 4-ohm speakers in parallel to the head unit that is not 2-ohm stable is either going to blow fuses or kill the head unit.

I would not run the speakers spliced like that anyways even if the head unit could handle, cause you don't have independent control over the (loudness) level of each speaker in the system.
Also, there is this parameter called "damping factor", and it's a valueless number that describes how much control the amplifier has over the speaker itself; when running parallel loads, the damping factor gets split is half - less control means sloppy sound.

As a rule of thumb, the speakers account for the majority of the sound quality of the system.
If you're on the budget, spend the money on the speakers.
Get speakers that are good at reproducing the sound that they are designed for; if you're using crossovers, no need to go really big up front.
BTW, all of the speakers (with the exception of the subs) should be running some kinda high-pass crossover, either passive or active.
Also, spend the money on the front speaker set; rears should be rear fill - no need to spend big bucks for fill speakers.
Also, don't need to runs tweeters in the back or run very large diameters, especially when you already have a subwoofer in the system.
4" to 5.25" is fine; 6.5" is really too big, unless you're just filling the hole.

Next, concentrate on the head unit...
Any of the name brand head units should be okay - even the cheaper models.

Last, (outboard) amplifiers are not that important.
Most of the head units today boost very good power as-is.
Responsibility of the amp should be only to make the signal loud.
I'm not a big fan is building in fancy sound processing - crossovers are a little different though.


-Ted

[Silver86]

great info Ted!

[djmtsu]

Originally Posted by RETed

Wow, since when head units were 2-ohm stable per channel?
Running a pair of 4-ohm speakers in parallel to the head unit that is not 2-ohm stable is either going to blow fuses or kill the head unit.

I would not run the speakers spliced like that anyways even if the head unit could handle, cause you don't have independent control over the (loudness) level of each speaker in the system.
Also, there is this parameter called "damping factor", and it's a valueless number that describes how much control the amplifier has over the speaker itself; when running parallel loads, the damping factor gets split is half - less control means sloppy sound.

As a rule of thumb, the speakers account for the majority of the sound quality of the system.
If you're on the budget, spend the money on the speakers.
Get speakers that are good at reproducing the sound that they are designed for; if you're using crossovers, no need to go really big up front.
BTW, all of the speakers (with the exception of the subs) should be running some kinda high-pass crossover, either passive or active.
Also, spend the money on the front speaker set; rears should be rear fill - no need to spend big bucks for fill speakers.
Also, don't need to runs tweeters in the back or run very large diameters, especially when you already have a subwoofer in the system.
4" to 5.25" is fine; 6.5" is really too big, unless you're just filling the hole.

Next, concentrate on the head unit...
Any of the name brand head units should be okay - even the cheaper models.

Last, (outboard) amplifiers are not that important.
Most of the head units today boost very good power as-is.
Responsibility of the amp should be only to make the signal loud.
I'm not a big fan is building in fancy sound processing - crossovers are a little different though.


-Ted

Alright almighty Ted. People have been running 4 speakers of the 2 channels on FCs for years. I just wanted to know if there was a better way, without buying a crossover (since mine was stolen). And I have never blown a head unit, or even a fuse in any of the FC's I have owned running the same way.

Also, I said I have a sub, I never said it was in the car. In fact I stated that I do NOT want to put it in my FC. So in that case, the rear speakers ARE important.

I had a system in my old 91 that sounded excellent, of course that was with 1996 car audio technology.

[RETed]

Originally Posted by djmtsu

Alright almighty Ted. People have been running 4 speakers of the 2 channels on FCs for years. I just wanted to know if there was a better way, without buying a crossover (since mine was stolen). And I have never blown a head unit, or even a fuse in any of the FC's I have owned running the same way.

First time I heard of this...
Recommended specs are offered by every manufacturer for their aftermarket head units.
I bet all of them say they are only 4-ohm load rated.
If you're talking about multi speaker set-up's up front through a passive crossover, then we're talking about a different beast altogether.
I still stand by my statement: if it's not recommended by the manufacturer, I do not recommend splicing a parallel load for a channel on the head unit.
If you're getting away with it then fine, that's your car.
I would never do it with any of my cars.

Also, I said I have a sub, I never said it was in the car. In fact I stated that I do NOT want to put it in my FC. So in that case, the rear speakers ARE important.

Nothing is going to reproduce low frequencies like a large diameter speaker / subwoofer / driver.
For me, 6.5" dedicated midwoofers cannot reproduce bass below about 200Hz without authority when compared to a dedicated subwoofer.
My "ideal" system requires tweeters, a 4" midrange, a 6.5" midbass, and some kinda subwoofer set-up.
This is what I require to minimally reproduce the full spectrum of sound.
Anything less is a compromise.

Sure, you can get away with using a 6.5" driver to reproduce low frequencies, but it's going to be a compromise.
It's your car.

I had a system in my old 91 that sounded excellent, of course that was with 1996 car audio technology.

Sound quality for people is usually subjective.
You don't know what is "excellent" until you've been exposed to it.
Most people don't know what "excellent" is.


-Ted

[djmtsu]

Originally Posted by RETed

Sound quality for people is usually subjective.
You don't know what is "excellent" until you've been exposed to it.
Most people don't know what "excellent" is.


-Ted

I have a minor degree in Music Production Technology. Does that count?

I am not going for any kind of 'awesome' factor, just better than the set up in there now.

I will most likely try the amped rear speakers, and run the front 4 off the head unit.

[Turbo II]

Like I said, I don't know much about this stuff either...

What if he ran the dash on the front and doors on the rear of the HU and used his amp for the rears? Or is that too much amp for the speakers he has or might get budget wise?

[djmtsu]

That is actually a good idea Greg.

I might try that, and crank the level down so that they don't completely drown the fronts.

The amp is an old Pheonix Gold 250W amp (bitchin!). Still works awesome!

[Turbo II]

My ears ring from 35 years of playing in bands, running guitar shops, studio work, concerts... plus I have the obvious midrange loss from it all.

dj I'm curious to how it works, DO IT!

Anyway, I took a cruise today and definitely like the Alpine better than the old Clarion I had. But to be honest I found myself at times wishing I had more low end from the rear end.

[Project10AE]

IMO you are making this much more complicated than it needs to be...

step one: ditch the 4in speakers... they are probably just adding noise... especially if you are running them off of spliced inputs from the front channel with no frequency adjustments (4in speakers aren't made to replicate the same sounds as 6.5in speakers so unless you accommodate that you are probably just muddying the waters)
step two: get some good quality door / rear speakers... 2way speakers. you don't need components.
step three: get some sort of sound deadening material (cruise ebay, you don't need dynamat, but don't get something that is just like asphalt tape)
step four: get a good quality head unit. just my opinion but i HATE sony. Spend a little more here and get something good. Alpine, Kenwood (just not the $150 stuff), Pioneer have never let me down. You will probably enjoy the alpine ipod control as well.

if you want, spend a little more on the speakers so you can get some that will handle some power and sell your sub / amp (i am assuming you meant 250w mono sub amp) and get a nice 4channel amp to run all the speakers off of. You will hear a world of difference between a good head unit powering the speakers and a dedicated amp doing the job. I'd def consider selling what you have to make some money for good stuff though. You could probably have a pretty respectable setup that sounds worlds better for less than $500... even less if you can sell off what you have now to make some dough back!

sorry its late and that looks like one big run-on sentence