first gen rally road car.

SAW32rally · 01-18-2009, 08:22 PM

i have a 1984 rx7 with a 12a and i would like ti turn it in to a road going rally car. i have only had it for a few months. when i got it i wanted to build a strait up rally racer. now i have a slight idea what this would cost. now i want to make something that will be competitive in rally cross events but still be good to drive on the road. i think i am going to do a 13b engine swap and put in a better rear axle and a turbo II sub frame in. mostly for the rack and pinion. any advice would be cool. thanks.

Whizbang · 01-18-2009, 08:38 PM

the subframe from a Turbo II is the same as a GXL and very similar to basically everything else barring an FC marque.

As far a the engine goes. I love NA engines for their simplicity, low cost effectiveness and the high reliability. Plus in rallycross, you'll basically have no need for turbos. You will barely be able to build boost before your off the throttle again. So 13B NA is a good choice.

Since you have an 84, find yourself the Kia Sportage 4.77 gears first and foremost. Should be inexpensive (~100 dollars). Find a good Clutch LSD (FB or FC or miata) as well.

As for the engine. A good four port (ie turbo II) engine is best for making some good NA power. The porting is up to you and your driving preferences.

sen2two · 01-19-2009, 12:49 AM

there a lot of videos out there and im sure there a lot of info also on rod millen (rhyse millens father) who drove in rally with a 1st gen. he won a lot with it. try searching some rally forums. theres got to be info on his car somewhere. thats where i would start.

and NA would be a much better choice for rally like Low Impedance stated. also, i think REspeed has a full rack and pinion upgrade/swap. and check out YAW power. most road racing. but FULL of great info and good products for suspension.

staticpat · 01-19-2009, 07:02 AM

Specialstage.com has a good amount of info on setting up the 1st gens. If you want to be competetive in rallycross, stick to a rwd class. This will greatly limit the amount of modifications, but otherwise you will be racing against fast FWD VWs and neons. RWD just can't compete with that, sorry. That being said I will be competing in Modified 2wd this year, and my goal is to beat at least one FWD car.

Swapping in the 2nd gen subframe is a great idea. You can than use suspensions made for the 2nd gen such as the DMS gravel suspension. Don't put too much money into power, especially a turbo. You can't put power to the ground out there. Focus instead on tires, safety and handling.

Kentetsu · 01-19-2009, 11:45 AM

You might want to consider building your car to the SCCA CSP regulations. This would allow you to also race autocross (many more of those around than rally cross), and then just throw on some tires for rally cross. Adjustable shocks like Illuminas would be about the only must have item to swap between the two genres.

www.re-speed.com will have just about everything you need suspension wise which ever direction you decide to go in. Plus plenty of advice. Great guys to deal with.

.

SAW32rally · 01-19-2009, 05:09 PM

what do you mean Kia sportage gears. do you mean in the diff or tranny? i have been considering a toyota truck axle in the rear. it should have no problems with the rotary power. its a five or six lug too depending on the year. i can weld and in april i am going to the lincoln electric beginner and advanced automotive welding school so fab work should not be a problem. how much do you think i can get for my old 12a if it runs? thanks.

Whizbang · 01-19-2009, 05:31 PM

kia sportage front differential is the same as a 84-85 rx7 rear differential.

The toyota is a good upgrade, but it is a far amount of work to do since you will want to completely rid your self of the mazda four link

staticpat · 01-19-2009, 07:35 PM

And it will move you out of any kind of stock class most likely

SAW32rally · 01-20-2009, 06:02 PM

i was not planing o going 4x4. i like the way rwd's drive because its what i have always driven. i am a lot better at drifting my geo than trying to do any thing similar in my brothers honda. the geos wheel base is 80 something inches so its not that easy. any way, what rear suspension would you go with. just a better designed four link? thanks

Whizbang · 01-20-2009, 06:09 PM

well if you run in rallycross SM2 isnt too bad a feild. You'll be running FWD cars pretty much gaurenteed

SAW32rally · 01-20-2009, 06:27 PM

if i do not mind a lot of fab work the how hard is the 4x4 swap. the other thing is price. wont a 4x4 system cost a lot? if i do go 4x4 what front hubs and transfer case should i use. i think that that would take the car out of nasa stage rally. thanks

Whizbang · 01-20-2009, 06:30 PM

dont bother with 4x4.

the work involved it extensive. and youll be outclassed. plus parts break often. Custom parts are not fun to have break.

RWD is fun as hell. I take my Rx7 vert up pikes peak and its a field day. I want another FB for a rally / hillclimb project. The turbo II might still be slotted for such a duty but i really depends where i get posted come summer.

SAW32rally · 01-20-2009, 07:24 PM

if i go 4x4 and dont mind lots of work then how hard is the 4x4 swap? the other thing is price. what front hubs and transfer case would i use? i would think that a center diff would be a must. would a skyline or BMW 325IX case work and be cost effective or is there a custom piece that will work in this car? thanks

Whizbang · 01-20-2009, 07:26 PM

the older Mazda MPV van would be the source for a lot of the parts.

SAW32rally · 01-20-2009, 07:36 PM

that last post was a bit of a goof. sorry.

the rear end in my tracker has two trailing arms that run to the bottom of the axle and then an A arm that gos to the top of the differential. it would need an anti roll bar but that is simple. dose that sound like a good set up to get a basic model from? the tracker handles well for a top heavy mini SUV. it would eliminate the side to side travel that a panhard rod will give in a longer travel suspension. you might need to brace the A arm of of your roll bar but that should not be to hard. thanks

01-18-2009, 08:22 PM	#1
SAW32rally The Newbie Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (0) Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	first gen rally road car. i have a 1984 rx7 with a 12a and i would like ti turn it in to a road going rally car. i have only had it for a few months. when i got it i wanted to build a strait up rally racer. now i have a slight idea what this would cost. now i want to make something that will be competitive in rally cross events but still be good to drive on the road. i think i am going to do a 13b engine swap and put in a better rear axle and a turbo II sub frame in. mostly for the rack and pinion. any advice would be cool. thanks. __________________ rally rx7? SWEEEET!

01-18-2009, 08:38 PM	#2
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	the subframe from a Turbo II is the same as a GXL and very similar to basically everything else barring an FC marque. As far a the engine goes. I love NA engines for their simplicity, low cost effectiveness and the high reliability. Plus in rallycross, you'll basically have no need for turbos. You will barely be able to build boost before your off the throttle again. So 13B NA is a good choice. Since you have an 84, find yourself the Kia Sportage 4.77 gears first and foremost. Should be inexpensive (~100 dollars). Find a good Clutch LSD (FB or FC or miata) as well. As for the engine. A good four port (ie turbo II) engine is best for making some good NA power. The porting is up to you and your driving preferences. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

01-19-2009, 12:49 AM	#3
sen2two KTEC Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (2) Posts: 642 Rep Power: 0	there a lot of videos out there and im sure there a lot of info also on rod millen (rhyse millens father) who drove in rally with a 1st gen. he won a lot with it. try searching some rally forums. theres got to be info on his car somewhere. thats where i would start. and NA would be a much better choice for rally like Low Impedance stated. also, i think REspeed has a full rack and pinion upgrade/swap. and check out YAW power. most road racing. but FULL of great info and good products for suspension. __________________ what I have: 1985 Gs:12a All motor Drag car - 1973 Rx2: Play car What I had: 93 Touring: TRADED - 91 Coupe: TRADED - 90 GTU: RHD - 88 10AE: SOLD - 87 Base: SOLD - 86 Base: SOLD - 1985 GSLSE - 85 Gsl: SOLD - 80 Gs: TRADED - 1972 Rx2

01-19-2009, 07:02 AM	#4
staticpat Rally Fanboy Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New York iTrader: (1) Posts: 147 Rep Power: 17	Specialstage.com has a good amount of info on setting up the 1st gens. If you want to be competetive in rallycross, stick to a rwd class. This will greatly limit the amount of modifications, but otherwise you will be racing against fast FWD VWs and neons. RWD just can't compete with that, sorry. That being said I will be competing in Modified 2wd this year, and my goal is to beat at least one FWD car. Swapping in the 2nd gen subframe is a great idea. You can than use suspensions made for the 2nd gen such as the DMS gravel suspension. Don't put too much money into power, especially a turbo. You can't put power to the ground out there. Focus instead on tires, safety and handling. __________________

01-19-2009, 11:45 AM	#5
Kentetsu RCC Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan iTrader: (1) Posts: 530 Rep Power: 17	You might want to consider building your car to the SCCA CSP regulations. This would allow you to also race autocross (many more of those around than rally cross), and then just throw on some tires for rally cross. Adjustable shocks like Illuminas would be about the only must have item to swap between the two genres. www.re-speed.com will have just about everything you need suspension wise which ever direction you decide to go in. Plus plenty of advice. Great guys to deal with. . __________________ "Learn from the past, or it will become your future...." '85 GS 12a + LSD/Sterling carb/Respeed coilovers/Respeed front swaybar/Respeed adj. rear spring perches/Illuminas/Bilsteins on rear AutoX vids @ http://www.youtube.com/user/Kentetsu1

01-19-2009, 05:09 PM	#6
SAW32rally The Newbie Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (0) Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	what do you mean Kia sportage gears. do you mean in the diff or tranny? i have been considering a toyota truck axle in the rear. it should have no problems with the rotary power. its a five or six lug too depending on the year. i can weld and in april i am going to the lincoln electric beginner and advanced automotive welding school so fab work should not be a problem. how much do you think i can get for my old 12a if it runs? thanks. __________________ rally rx7? SWEEEET!

01-19-2009, 05:31 PM	#7
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	kia sportage front differential is the same as a 84-85 rx7 rear differential. The toyota is a good upgrade, but it is a far amount of work to do since you will want to completely rid your self of the mazda four link __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

01-19-2009, 07:35 PM	#8
staticpat Rally Fanboy Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New York iTrader: (1) Posts: 147 Rep Power: 17	And it will move you out of any kind of stock class most likely __________________

01-20-2009, 06:02 PM	#9
SAW32rally The Newbie Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (0) Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	i was not planing o going 4x4. i like the way rwd's drive because its what i have always driven. i am a lot better at drifting my geo than trying to do any thing similar in my brothers honda. the geos wheel base is 80 something inches so its not that easy. any way, what rear suspension would you go with. just a better designed four link? thanks __________________ rally rx7? SWEEEET!

01-20-2009, 06:09 PM	#10
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	well if you run in rallycross SM2 isnt too bad a feild. You'll be running FWD cars pretty much gaurenteed __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

01-20-2009, 06:27 PM	#11
SAW32rally The Newbie Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (0) Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	if i do not mind a lot of fab work the how hard is the 4x4 swap. the other thing is price. wont a 4x4 system cost a lot? if i do go 4x4 what front hubs and transfer case should i use. i think that that would take the car out of nasa stage rally. thanks __________________ rally rx7? SWEEEET!

01-20-2009, 06:30 PM	#12
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	dont bother with 4x4. the work involved it extensive. and youll be outclassed. plus parts break often. Custom parts are not fun to have break. RWD is fun as hell. I take my Rx7 vert up pikes peak and its a field day. I want another FB for a rally / hillclimb project. The turbo II might still be slotted for such a duty but i really depends where i get posted come summer. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

01-20-2009, 07:24 PM	#13
SAW32rally The Newbie Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (0) Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	if i go 4x4 and dont mind lots of work then how hard is the 4x4 swap? the other thing is price. what front hubs and transfer case would i use? i would think that a center diff would be a must. would a skyline or BMW 325IX case work and be cost effective or is there a custom piece that will work in this car? thanks __________________ rally rx7? SWEEEET!

01-20-2009, 07:26 PM	#14
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	the older Mazda MPV van would be the source for a lot of the parts. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

01-20-2009, 07:36 PM	#15
SAW32rally The Newbie Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (0) Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	that last post was a bit of a goof. sorry. the rear end in my tracker has two trailing arms that run to the bottom of the axle and then an A arm that gos to the top of the differential. it would need an anti roll bar but that is simple. dose that sound like a good set up to get a basic model from? the tracker handles well for a top heavy mini SUV. it would eliminate the side to side travel that a panhard rod will give in a longer travel suspension. you might need to brace the A arm of of your roll bar but that should not be to hard. thanks __________________ rally rx7? SWEEEET!