Question regarding bleeding brakes

Whizbang · 11-26-2008, 01:18 PM

Put in a new master cylinder last night (thanks to spooledup) but i did not have anything to bench bleed it. So we had to put it in as it was. (really really didn't want to have to do it that way...).

Anywho, i go around and start bleeding. The rears didnt have much pressure at all, and by the time i got the the driver's front, i had very good pressure. Granted each time i went to a new corner, there was a fair amount of air coming out for the first couple bleeds.

All and all the car does not stop all that well. I have good pedal feel, but the brakes aren't really accomplishing much. It stops, but nothing in the realm of quick.

So is it possible that since there was sooo much air in the master cylinder, that even after the bleeding i did, there is still air in the system? I might help explain why the rears where not getting much pressure going on. (more just trickled out).

So should i do another round of bleeding?

josh18_2k · 11-26-2008, 01:45 PM

just keep at it...
i highly recommend speed bleeders. they work amazingly well. after i changed my front calipers it seriously took about 2 minutes to bleed my brakes, by myself.
theyre like $13 a pair. totally worth it. Russel makes them, so you can get em at autozone or whatever.
Front- SB8100 M8 X 1.0 1.28" (35.54mm)
Rear- SB7100 M7 X 1.0 1.38" (35.15mm)

oh, and i didnt bench bleed my master either. just pour and pump. i would keep going with a caliper until you run a whole master full of fluid through it with no air bubbles. sometimes it'll take like 10 pumps of nice solid fluid, before a bubble will appear.

yeti · 11-26-2008, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh18_2k

just keep at it...
oh, and i didnt bench bleed my master either. just pour and pump. i would keep going with a caliper until you run a whole master full of fluid through it with no air bubbles. sometimes it'll take like 10 pumps of nice solid fluid, before a bubble will appear.

Well there is my problem.. I guess when I get around to my brakes again I'll buy some of these. Does brand matter in speedbleeders?

Whizbang · 11-26-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh18_2k

just keep at it...
i highly recommend speed bleeders. they work amazingly well. after i changed my front calipers it seriously took about 2 minutes to bleed my brakes, by myself.
theyre like $13 a pair. totally worth it. Russel makes them, so you can get em at autozone or whatever.
Front- SB8100 M8 X 1.0 1.28" (35.54mm)
Rear- SB7100 M7 X 1.0 1.38" (35.15mm)

oh, and i didnt bench bleed my master either. just pour and pump. i would keep going with a caliper until you run a whole master full of fluid through it with no air bubbles. sometimes it'll take like 10 pumps of nice solid fluid, before a bubble will appear.

Autozone sells three kinds, only one is metric and it sure as hell doesnt fit. Summit racing does sell the Russell ones. Has the same part number for front and rear. They come in pairs and are about 10 dollars.

The SB8100 and SB1700 i could not manage to cross reference with anything.

yeti · 11-26-2008, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Impedance

The SB8100 and SB1700 i could not manage to cross reference with anything.

http://www.speedbleeder.com/automobi...ions.htm#Mazda

I guess these are not russell brand.. but they are 7(steel) or 15(stainless) for I guess one..

Phoenix7 · 11-26-2008, 10:53 PM

i'm with the crew...keep at it.

firzen · 11-26-2008, 11:09 PM

I have/had the same issue. I just keep going, give up for a day, then come back later. My brakes still don't feel as firm as I'd like but they still work; the shop that gave me the annual State Inspection even OK'd it.

I will probably bleed them again come springtime. Hopefully the fluid would have absorbed/dissolved some of the bubbles. Might be wishful thinking on my part but I'm not keen on bleeding the brakes when it's below 30°F in the garage.

Good luck.

Phoenix7 · 11-27-2008, 01:04 AM

damn, below 30?? how long till the car warms up?

firzen · 11-27-2008, 01:38 AM

Never really timed it but around 5-10 minutes, I'd say. I spend the time to pump the pedals a bit, fiddle with the electrics, charge the battery, and check for gremlins.

I try not to drive in the winter time as they salt the roads like Romans desolating Carthage.

Whizbang · 11-27-2008, 01:51 AM

Yea Ohio was like that with the salt. When you have several salt mines within miles of your town, salt has less value than water.

Tomorrow i think im going to give it another go and see if it improves.

Whizbang · 11-28-2008, 01:01 PM

The rears seems pretty sorted. Good flow coming out, steady, etc.

The fronts seems funky. As soon as you open the fronts it shoots out with some serious velocity but not much flow. I think i STILL need to rebleed the fronts til i get an actual flow out of them. Car still isnt the best stopping wise so i know the issue isnt resolved.

josh18_2k · 11-28-2008, 04:32 PM

oh i got my bleeders at Baxter. i assumed autozone had them.
regardless, you can just get em at summit. same price, except you gotta pay shipping.
totally worth it!
everyone buy them lol
the sizes i posted are correct. i just wrote them down, took them into baxters, and they guy grabbed them for me from behind the counter.

LI- we mean it when we say keep at it. back when i bled my brakes the old fashioned way, it took me like half an hour to get one caliper done. and if you ever let the fluid level drop too low, the clock resets. its a bitch.
so to make sure the lines are clear, run at least a full reservoir, if not two, through each caliper with zero bubbles.

Whizbang · 11-28-2008, 04:43 PM

seems like that is the goal for now. Need to buy more fluid. I plan on running at least the whole master worth of fluid through each front.

Fidelity101 · 11-28-2008, 05:26 PM

just keep an eye out on your fluid level, I've bleed mine before and kept going and accidentally went below the minimum line so it sucked more air back in

had to do it all over again heh.

StarSpeedRacing · 12-20-2008, 05:14 AM

Start bleeding from passenger rear then passenger front.
Drivers front then drivers rear. Thats the order you bleed brakes.
If you have good pedal feel did you ever think it could probably be your pads?
Low quality pads or auto part store brands are cheap but sometimes better than getting them done.

What type of pads are you using?

11-26-2008, 01:18 PM	#1
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	Question regarding bleeding brakes Put in a new master cylinder last night (thanks to spooledup) but i did not have anything to bench bleed it. So we had to put it in as it was. (really really didn't want to have to do it that way...). Anywho, i go around and start bleeding. The rears didnt have much pressure at all, and by the time i got the the driver's front, i had very good pressure. Granted each time i went to a new corner, there was a fair amount of air coming out for the first couple bleeds. All and all the car does not stop all that well. I have good pedal feel, but the brakes aren't really accomplishing much. It stops, but nothing in the realm of quick. So is it possible that since there was sooo much air in the master cylinder, that even after the bleeding i did, there is still air in the system? I might help explain why the rears where not getting much pressure going on. (more just trickled out). So should i do another round of bleeding? __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-26-2008, 01:45 PM	#2
josh18_2k Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gresham, OR iTrader: (0) Posts: 473 Rep Power: 17	just keep at it... i highly recommend speed bleeders. they work amazingly well. after i changed my front calipers it seriously took about 2 minutes to bleed my brakes, by myself. theyre like $13 a pair. totally worth it. Russel makes them, so you can get em at autozone or whatever. Front- SB8100 M8 X 1.0 1.28" (35.54mm) Rear- SB7100 M7 X 1.0 1.38" (35.15mm) oh, and i didnt bench bleed my master either. just pour and pump. i would keep going with a caliper until you run a whole master full of fluid through it with no air bubbles. sometimes it'll take like 10 pumps of nice solid fluid, before a bubble will appear. __________________

11-27-2008, 01:51 AM	#10
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	Yea Ohio was like that with the salt. When you have several salt mines within miles of your town, salt has less value than water. Tomorrow i think im going to give it another go and see if it improves. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-28-2008, 01:01 PM	#11
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	The rears seems pretty sorted. Good flow coming out, steady, etc. The fronts seems funky. As soon as you open the fronts it shoots out with some serious velocity but not much flow. I think i STILL need to rebleed the fronts til i get an actual flow out of them. Car still isnt the best stopping wise so i know the issue isnt resolved. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-28-2008, 04:32 PM	#12
josh18_2k Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gresham, OR iTrader: (0) Posts: 473 Rep Power: 17	oh i got my bleeders at Baxter. i assumed autozone had them. regardless, you can just get em at summit. same price, except you gotta pay shipping. totally worth it! everyone buy them lol the sizes i posted are correct. i just wrote them down, took them into baxters, and they guy grabbed them for me from behind the counter. LI- we mean it when we say keep at it. back when i bled my brakes the old fashioned way, it took me like half an hour to get one caliper done. and if you ever let the fluid level drop too low, the clock resets. its a bitch. so to make sure the lines are clear, run at least a full reservoir, if not two, through each caliper with zero bubbles. __________________ Last edited by josh18_2k; 11-28-2008 at 04:35 PM..

11-26-2008, 11:09 PM	#7
firzen Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (2) Posts: 231 Rep Power: 17	I have/had the same issue. I just keep going, give up for a day, then come back later. My brakes still don't feel as firm as I'd like but they still work; the shop that gave me the annual State Inspection even OK'd it. I will probably bleed them again come springtime. Hopefully the fluid would have absorbed/dissolved some of the bubbles. Might be wishful thinking on my part but I'm not keen on bleeding the brakes when it's below 30°F in the garage. Good luck.

11-27-2008, 01:38 AM	#9
firzen Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (2) Posts: 231 Rep Power: 17	Never really timed it but around 5-10 minutes, I'd say. I spend the time to pump the pedals a bit, fiddle with the electrics, charge the battery, and check for gremlins. I try not to drive in the winter time as they salt the roads like Romans desolating Carthage.

11-28-2008, 04:43 PM	#13
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	seems like that is the goal for now. Need to buy more fluid. I plan on running at least the whole master worth of fluid through each front. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-28-2008, 05:26 PM	#14
Fidelity101 Reliable Source Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Michigan/Illinois iTrader: (1) Posts: 336 Rep Power: 17	just keep an eye out on your fluid level, I've bleed mine before and kept going and accidentally went below the minimum line so it sucked more air back in had to do it all over again heh. __________________ My Rx-7 Vids

12-20-2008, 05:14 AM	#15
StarSpeedRacing StarSpeedRacing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: California iTrader: (0) Posts: 34 Rep Power: 0	Start bleeding from passenger rear then passenger front. Drivers front then drivers rear. Thats the order you bleed brakes. If you have good pedal feel did you ever think it could probably be your pads? Low quality pads or auto part store brands are cheap but sometimes better than getting them done. What type of pads are you using? __________________ StarSpeedRacing Parts Development & Discount Parts! GB:FD Intercooler Kit GB:Stainless Non Turbo Headers Contact: StarSpeedRacing@gmail.com