Keeping a hill climb turbo rotary cool

Whizbang · 11-10-2008, 02:52 PM

so i now have a directive. BUT the biggest issue i believe i am going to face is trying to keep the car cool.

Some important information to get you up to speed:

FC3S chassis
13B Engine. Will be sporting a large streetport.
Forced Induction. Still stuck between either a Camden S/C or a T4 setup. I have been advised by several rally folks that the stock Rx7 turbo wont handle the prolonged stresses.
hill climbs range from 6 - 12 miles, obviously, uphill so the car will be under extreme loads for minutes at a time.

So as far as keeping the whole shebang cool. I can see the choice of forced induction really being the major factor. If i run the turbocharger, i will need a larger inter cooler and i believe the oil temperatures will be higher due to the proximity of the exhaust heat plus there will be an impact on the coolant assuming i use a coolant cooled turbo charger.

If i run the Camden it is oil cool only, and not exposed as directly to searing exhaust heat. This would also not require an inter cooler and therefore, save a serious amount of space in the engine bay for the radiator and the oil coolers.

Everything will have to be carefully placed and ducted for its own protection (first priority) and for optimal flow. I will have to see if i can maybe lay the radiator in a v-mount style and chop the hood to have air directed. Might partially work as a creator of down force as well.

OIL:
I plan on running two, 18"x14" oil coolers with -10AN lines with fans and a chance of a mister system is things get real bad. The stock oil cooler will not keep up and even the Mazda Comp. Oil Cooler is somewhat lax on doing the job.

COOLANT:
Will have to run the best radiator i can find and use every trick in the book to improve cooling starting with the build of the engine. Ill have to see how intense the heating system really is to see if a mister will be used here as well.

classicauto · 11-11-2008, 12:56 PM

Talk to BLUETII, he hillclimbs his FC. I believe he's running a Vmount, but don't know about his oil cooler and rad setup

Flooder · 11-13-2008, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicauto

Talk to BLUETII, he hillclimbs his FC. I believe he's running a Vmount, but don't know about his oil cooler and rad setup

If he's running a v-mount then you know exactly what his radiator setup is

classicauto · 11-14-2008, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flooder

If he's running a v-mount then you know exactly what his radiator setup is

I meant specifics of it. Dual or single oil cooler, rad type etc.

Whizbang · 11-11-2008, 01:19 PM

is he on this forum?

classicauto · 11-13-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Impedance

is he on this forum?

Not that I'm aware of...he's over there in lala land

Whizbang · 11-13-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicauto

Not that I'm aware of...he's over there in lala land

ill have to see if i can find him then

Whizbang · 11-13-2008, 03:00 PM

those with V-Mounts, how well does everything "work" per say?

Whizbang · 11-13-2008, 11:05 PM

my "plan" is to run a v-mount like setup since i feel it gives the best attention to the radiator. I will also be running a mister system of some form or another. I have a CO2 based kit with a smaller tank on hand. I might see about using it on the inter cooler with a much larger bottle then perhaps a normal mister onto the radiator.

proz07 · 11-19-2008, 01:14 AM

CO huh your not doing pikes peak are you?? v-mount would be best bet but you might look into methanol injection to help keep things cool air-charge wise. used with your intercooler it will give you subambient charge temps as well as deture detination and cooling down egt temps. as far as a radiator you might look into a custom made one i doubt anything current would allow you to run 9min balls out without help. try getting in contact with fritts from design engineering works he made a real decent one for the FD i believe the radiator is dual pass 2in core.

z

evans 0 psi coolant is said to be mothers milk for keeping temps in check in a rotary although not cheap

nissanconvert · 02-22-2009, 03:46 PM

Intercooler/radiator evaporative water sprayer or a/i.

I've heard good things about evans, it won't boil at any temperature you'll see but it does have a worse specific heat than any of your water/glycol mixes so you will have a tendency toward higher temps.

Whizbang · 02-22-2009, 04:53 PM

that was one partially lucrative idea, running the water sprayer constantly. Also the idea of using a CO2 system was a possibility because it would leave no water on the track but i would have to see what the rate of flow is vs. size of bottle to see if it would last an entire run or not.

nissanconvert · 02-22-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Impedance

that was one partially lucrative idea, running the water sprayer constantly. Also the idea of using a CO2 system was a possibility because it would leave no water on the track but i would have to see what the rate of flow is vs. size of bottle to see if it would last an entire run or not.

That particular system is high pressure, the idea being very very small droplet size. None of the water should make it to the track. A variation of the system was adapted as a through the filter auxiliary water injection sprayer- and the filter wasn't wet. I have a dirt cheap system with a boost switch and a windshield washer bag & pump. It's not nearly as efficient but my temps return to normal far faster than they did without.

Whizbang · 02-22-2009, 11:19 PM

Hmm...well that might be the best way to go then. The nozzles seem cheap enough and i can build the system from pieces, plumb it how i need, etc.

speedjunkie · 02-23-2009, 07:01 PM

YOU'RE IN OHIO AGAIN!!! LOL Just send the car out to me when you finish it and I'LL take it up the hill, HAHA.

11-10-2008, 02:52 PM	#1
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 21	Keeping a hill climb turbo rotary cool so i now have a directive. BUT the biggest issue i believe i am going to face is trying to keep the car cool. Some important information to get you up to speed: FC3S chassis 13B Engine. Will be sporting a large streetport. Forced Induction. Still stuck between either a Camden S/C or a T4 setup. I have been advised by several rally folks that the stock Rx7 turbo wont handle the prolonged stresses. hill climbs range from 6 - 12 miles, obviously, uphill so the car will be under extreme loads for minutes at a time. So as far as keeping the whole shebang cool. I can see the choice of forced induction really being the major factor. If i run the turbocharger, i will need a larger inter cooler and i believe the oil temperatures will be higher due to the proximity of the exhaust heat plus there will be an impact on the coolant assuming i use a coolant cooled turbo charger. If i run the Camden it is oil cool only, and not exposed as directly to searing exhaust heat. This would also not require an inter cooler and therefore, save a serious amount of space in the engine bay for the radiator and the oil coolers. Everything will have to be carefully placed and ducted for its own protection (first priority) and for optimal flow. I will have to see if i can maybe lay the radiator in a v-mount style and chop the hood to have air directed. Might partially work as a creator of down force as well. OIL: I plan on running two, 18"x14" oil coolers with -10AN lines with fans and a chance of a mister system is things get real bad. The stock oil cooler will not keep up and even the Mazda Comp. Oil Cooler is somewhat lax on doing the job. COOLANT: Will have to run the best radiator i can find and use every trick in the book to improve cooling starting with the build of the engine. Ill have to see how intense the heating system really is to see if a mister will be used here as well. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-11-2008, 01:19 PM	#5
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 21	is he on this forum? __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-13-2008, 03:00 PM	#8
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 21	those with V-Mounts, how well does everything "work" per say? __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-13-2008, 11:05 PM	#9
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 21	my "plan" is to run a v-mount like setup since i feel it gives the best attention to the radiator. I will also be running a mister system of some form or another. I have a CO2 based kit with a smaller tank on hand. I might see about using it on the inter cooler with a much larger bottle then perhaps a normal mister onto the radiator. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-19-2008, 01:14 AM	#10
proz07 Needing a new tow rig. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: AR Posts: 245 Rep Power: 18	CO huh your not doing pikes peak are you?? v-mount would be best bet but you might look into methanol injection to help keep things cool air-charge wise. used with your intercooler it will give you subambient charge temps as well as deture detination and cooling down egt temps. as far as a radiator you might look into a custom made one i doubt anything current would allow you to run 9min balls out without help. try getting in contact with fritts from design engineering works he made a real decent one for the FD i believe the radiator is dual pass 2in core. z evans 0 psi coolant is said to be mothers milk for keeping temps in check in a rotary although not cheap Last edited by proz07; 11-19-2008 at 02:46 AM.

11-11-2008, 12:56 PM	#2
classicauto crash auto?fix auto Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 816 Rep Power: 18	Talk to BLUETII, he hillclimbs his FC. I believe he's running a Vmount, but don't know about his oil cooler and rad setup

02-22-2009, 03:46 PM	#11
nissanconvert The Newbie Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 25 Rep Power: 0	Intercooler/radiator evaporative water sprayer or a/i. I've heard good things about evans, it won't boil at any temperature you'll see but it does have a worse specific heat than any of your water/glycol mixes so you will have a tendency toward higher temps.

02-22-2009, 04:53 PM	#12
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 21	that was one partially lucrative idea, running the water sprayer constantly. Also the idea of using a CO2 system was a possibility because it would leave no water on the track but i would have to see what the rate of flow is vs. size of bottle to see if it would last an entire run or not. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

02-22-2009, 11:19 PM	#14
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 21	Hmm...well that might be the best way to go then. The nozzles seem cheap enough and i can build the system from pieces, plumb it how i need, etc. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

02-23-2009, 07:01 PM	#15
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 20	YOU'RE IN OHIO AGAIN!!! LOL Just send the car out to me when you finish it and I'LL take it up the hill, HAHA.