starts occasionally, just dies

Whizbang · 11-15-2013, 05:01 PM

as far as i can tell this is entirely a fuel related issue.

The pump is flowing the right direction, and its on its own circuit. I was having no fuel at all, test by plugging the plugs and them being completely dry after much cranking.

Starts and runs on ether.

moved a ground on the wiring harness and now it kinda tries to start on occasion, but usually just dies immediately. Throttle doesnt seem to help keep it alive.

TPS is adjusted to 1000 ohm. The wires are correct to each injector. Have 12v at each injector.

running out of ideas.

RETed · 11-15-2013, 05:20 PM

Assume ignition is firing...

Something wrong with the fuel?
Are you getting fuel pressure?
Easy to check: feel fuel hose when cranking...
Are the fuel injectors firing?
Pull primary fuel injectors; wire them so they don't pop out of the fuel rail; crank engine and have friend help to watch.

-Ted

Whizbang · 11-15-2013, 06:10 PM

ill have to do the visual test on the injectors perhaps. I was using an ohm meter to see them being "triggered" by the ecu while cranking / running.

fuel pressure seems alright, even tried two different regulators.

She is getting a "little" better after connecting the B/L wire from FEM-03 of the ecu to the circuit opening relay. runs and almost reved with the throttle, but is still dying. pretty quickly.

redid the base timing at the CAS as well. Used the yellow painted notch on the crank pulley for leading.

can not find any grounds i've missed.

RETed · 11-15-2013, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whizbang

ill have to do the visual test on the injectors perhaps. I was using an ohm meter to see them being "triggered" by the ecu while cranking / running.

Hard to do unless you're using an analog meter?

Quote:

She is getting a "little" better after connecting the B/L wire from FEM-03 of the ecu to the circuit opening relay. runs and almost reved with the throttle, but is still dying. pretty quickly.

redid the base timing at the CAS as well. Used the yellow painted notch on the crank pulley for leading.

can not find any grounds i've missed.

You the guy that was messing with the "3B" wire in another thread?

You're running the stock AFM?
Tried jumping the fuel pump cut-off switch?

-Ted

Whizbang · 11-15-2013, 06:34 PM

yup that was me. yes, stock AFM. unplugging it makes it stop even trying to start.

the fuel pump is on its own circuit and no longer incorporated with the stock ecu

RETed · 11-15-2013, 07:21 PM

Try cranking while propping the AFM door just a smidge to simulate the car cranking?
Obviously, leave the air filter off...

-Ted

Whizbang · 11-15-2013, 07:31 PM

ill give that a try tomorrow, getting a little late to be starting with an open header.

JL1RX7 · 11-15-2013, 08:29 PM

Wizzy my bang - When has this stopped you before... Oh wait your in Cali now.

Whizbang · 11-15-2013, 10:52 PM

yea i don't need the cops coming to niff around my out of state registered car.

im feeling that the injectors are gummied up or something since its improving incrementally

RETed · 11-16-2013, 12:03 AM

Might be bad / dirty fuel filter?

Easy check.
Remove fuel filter and tap the fuel tank side on a clean rag...

-Ted

Whizbang · 11-16-2013, 02:22 PM

so if i manually play with the flapper door on the AFM she runs fine. Trying to get my hands on another AFM to swap out this one

RETed · 11-16-2013, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whizbang

so if i manually play with the flapper door on the AFM she runs fine. Trying to get my hands on another AFM to swap out this one

Before you do that...
Check for intake vacuum leaks.
This could also cause the AFM door to stay "too closed" which tells the ECU to shut everything down.

-Ted

Whizbang · 11-16-2013, 04:50 PM

AFM change out made no difference. Sounds like its on one rotor. Im thinking that before i got better at higher rpm because the secondaries kicked on. Going to dig into the primary injectors and check them out.

no vacuum leaks that i can find.

Whizbang · 11-16-2013, 07:38 PM

both primary injectors are squirting fuel just fine. And they are wired correctly and not reversed.

the leading plugs seem old and dirty. Also they were BUR6EQ for some reason so i ordered a full new set in the proper heat ran which should be in tomorrow.

The gas seems a little old, but its about 2 gallons old and 5 gallons fresh and SHOULD run from previous experiences....

stupid cars.

RETed · 11-16-2013, 10:03 PM

Sounds like the new plugs should work...

Old fuel shouldn't matter.
I've had my FC burn through 2 year old gas - both non-eth and E10 recently no problem.

-Ted

11-15-2013, 05:01 PM	#1
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	starts occasionally, just dies as far as i can tell this is entirely a fuel related issue. The pump is flowing the right direction, and its on its own circuit. I was having no fuel at all, test by plugging the plugs and them being completely dry after much cranking. Starts and runs on ether. moved a ground on the wiring harness and now it kinda tries to start on occasion, but usually just dies immediately. Throttle doesnt seem to help keep it alive. TPS is adjusted to 1000 ohm. The wires are correct to each injector. Have 12v at each injector. running out of ideas. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-15-2013, 06:10 PM	#3
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	ill have to do the visual test on the injectors perhaps. I was using an ohm meter to see them being "triggered" by the ecu while cranking / running. fuel pressure seems alright, even tried two different regulators. She is getting a "little" better after connecting the B/L wire from FEM-03 of the ecu to the circuit opening relay. runs and almost reved with the throttle, but is still dying. pretty quickly. redid the base timing at the CAS as well. Used the yellow painted notch on the crank pulley for leading. can not find any grounds i've missed. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-15-2013, 06:34 PM	#5
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	yup that was me. yes, stock AFM. unplugging it makes it stop even trying to start. the fuel pump is on its own circuit and no longer incorporated with the stock ecu __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-15-2013, 07:31 PM	#7
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	ill give that a try tomorrow, getting a little late to be starting with an open header. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-15-2013, 10:52 PM	#9
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	yea i don't need the cops coming to niff around my out of state registered car. im feeling that the injectors are gummied up or something since its improving incrementally __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-15-2013, 08:29 PM	#8
JL1RX7 Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Front Royal, VA iTrader: (1) Posts: 487 Rep Power: 17	Wizzy my bang - When has this stopped you before... Oh wait your in Cali now.

11-16-2013, 02:22 PM	#11
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	so if i manually play with the flapper door on the AFM she runs fine. Trying to get my hands on another AFM to swap out this one __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-16-2013, 04:50 PM	#13
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	AFM change out made no difference. Sounds like its on one rotor. Im thinking that before i got better at higher rpm because the secondaries kicked on. Going to dig into the primary injectors and check them out. no vacuum leaks that i can find. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

11-16-2013, 07:38 PM	#14
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	both primary injectors are squirting fuel just fine. And they are wired correctly and not reversed. the leading plugs seem old and dirty. Also they were BUR6EQ for some reason so i ordered a full new set in the proper heat ran which should be in tomorrow. The gas seems a little old, but its about 2 gallons old and 5 gallons fresh and SHOULD run from previous experiences.... stupid cars. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook