Rx8 tuning help

Jr_gosetto · 09-14-2013, 12:48 PM

Hey guys I'm pretty new to the rotary scene. I know the engines pretty well at this point besides a few thing so if there is a link someone could post to learn more would great. im not to sure about how to tune the pcme. I have looked for piggyback's but I havnt been able to find any. So my question is can the pcme be open source tuned. I'm planing on doing a street port from mazdatrix bc i have ti rebuil the engine anyways and wanted to tune the engine aswell to try and get a few extra ponys. Any help would be much appreciated.

Dannobre · 09-14-2013, 06:11 PM

Cobb AP is one way...

MazdaEdit is a new programmer that some are having luck with. Seems a bit more difficult to use....but good for tinkerers that are good with computers

Jr_gosetto · 09-14-2013, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dannobre

Cobb AP is one way...

I checked to see if they made one for it currently and they don't I even double checked there web site just now.

RETed · 09-14-2013, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jr_gosetto

So my question is can the pcme be open source tuned.

It's called MegaSquirt.

-Ted

Jr_gosetto · 09-14-2013, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed

It's called MegaSquirt.

Well the megasquirt is a DIY and dosnt really explain wat it's classified as ie piggyback or standalone. Could you shed some light on wat it truly is. Is it a standalone that you build a new pcme. Or do u rip open the factory one and install the circuit into it. Or is it building a programmer. A little more detail would be nice

JL1RX7 · 09-15-2013, 08:36 PM

Two ways - Cobb Accessport if you are series one eight. Its a piggy back like the PFC for 3rd gens.

Second gut the stock CANbus PCM and run your own.

Some people have used GOODbox and a few other hacks into the PCM. But nothing is really out in the world that will get you much. Better off sticking to what you have stock or spend 1k to 2k for Cobb and tuning for ten or so HP. Really the major thing with Cobb is you can change or T-stat fan operation and make the oil injectors put more oil in.

Comes down to this. What and how much do you REALLY want to spend. Ask that question first then look to see what is out there.

RETed · 09-18-2013, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jr_gosetto

Well the megasquirt is a DIY and dosnt really explain wat it's classified as ie piggyback or standalone. Could you shed some light on wat it truly is. Is it a standalone that you build a new pcme. Or do u rip open the factory one and install the circuit into it. Or is it building a programmer. A little more detail would be nice

I thought the definition of "open source" is do-you-own-homework...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source

-Ted

Jr_gosetto · 09-18-2013, 03:57 PM

And I'm just elaborating on my previous post about the NA with a Bridgeport. I'm not saying these is no aim to be had from a Bridgeported NA 13b. But from what I have heard the gain in power isn't worth the trade off in reliability/maintainence. I have heard guys running Bridgeported rx7's have to change the spark plugs about every 3 weeks, oil changes much more frequently, and it makes the milage much worse. Plus the same guys say it dosnt have neer as much low end. Also like I said I a previous post (give it a quick look over its #13) anyone know about high compression turbo setup.

reddozen · 09-16-2013, 10:53 AM

Cob is not a piggy back. It's a PCM re-flash tool that reprograms the factory ECU. You don't leave it connected like say and SAFC-II (an actual piggy back). Even the Power FC is a stand alone computer (This is an FC / FD computer though)...

Jr_gosetto · 09-16-2013, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddozen

Cob is not a piggy back. It's a PCM re-flash tool that reprograms the factory ECU. You don't leave it connected like say and SAFC-II (an actual piggy back). Even the Power FC is a stand alone computer (This is an FC / FD computer though)...

Well actually you leave the AP connected like a piggy back, atleast if yo want to use the launch control and other features (Idk if the rx8s get launch control or not but the subarus do). But you right its a flash you get cobb to load the program then jut plug it in. And like I stated previously if you are to go on the cobb website now u will not see an AP for the rx8 the only things there comparable with are the mazadaspeed3 and mazadaspeed6.

reddozen · 09-16-2013, 11:46 AM

You have to get the RX8 Cob though Mazda Maniac. He has an exclusive contract with them for the RX8. And no, other than logging data, you don't get any perks for leaving the Cob plugged into your 8. Regardless, it's not necessary to leave it plugged in for the car to maintain it's tune.

If you get one used, you have to make sure that it's unmarried from the current owners car. Otherwise, Cob charges you like $300 to unlock it.

Jr_gosetto · 09-16-2013, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddozen

You have to get the RX8 Cob though Mazda Maniac. He has an exclusive contract with them for the RX8. And no, other than logging data, you don't get any perks for leaving the Cob plugged into your 8. Regardless, it's not necessary to leave it plugged in for the car to maintain it's tune.

If you get one used, you have to make sure that it's unmarried from the current owners car. Otherwise, Cob charges you like $300 to unlock it.

Cheers Mate ill check that out now. And so ur saying there is no launch control or flat foot shifting available with the AP for the 8. I am apart of the NASIOC forum and the guys on there say that if u want to use those features it has to be plugged in. Also is the mazdatrix port template good/ who makes the best template. And I can't seem to find a exhaust port template, dose anyone even make one for the 8 or are the stock ports big enought to breath out the extra exhaust gas (don't think there'd be much extra gases just want to do it right)

Jr_gosetto · 09-17-2013, 06:32 AM

Well I have just looked at racing beat website and saw they have a port template aswell and a PCM flash for the renisis with there street port. The PCM reflash is 300 and anothe 100 for the template. Where if I go with the Mazdatrix template for 100 I'd be looking at the 600 for the AP. so does anyone have a link of these 2 being compared possibly or a little write up. It seems the racing beat S-port and reflash route would be cheaper then just the AP. I don't mind spending extra $ on a better performing setup, but if its not a noticble differance y spend the extra $.

reddozen · 09-17-2013, 09:40 AM

The advantage of the AP setup is that Mazda Maniac will tune your car based on your setup. Also, you get to keep the tool, and you can use it to disable engine codes, tune the car again if you make further mods, etc. The racing beat flash s a generic flash that doesn't specifically take into account your car's setup. It's better than factory, but not as good as a complete tuning option.

As for porting templates... There's really no room to port the exhaust ports without hitting the water jackets. Also, don't expect more than 5~10HP tops out of intake porting on the renesis. It's honestly not worth the cost. Intake, exhaust, headers... nothing really adds any power to the 8 without spending a LOT of money. Mazda actually did a good job at squeezing all the reliable power out of the motor from the factory.

My car is bridge ported, AP tuned, intake, full exhaust, and I doubt I'm even pulling 220HP to the wheels (probably more like 210 tops on a good day). Compare this to guys with stock port motors that are serious racers making 200~230HP, and one could make the argument that porting does absolutely nothing for a renesis. You're looking at probably $100/1 HP on this motor.

Just giving you the info so you can make your own decision. I'm not trying to run you off, or scare you away from it if you really want it. Just want you to know that it's not like an old 13b engine where porting and good intake / exhaust can net you 20~30HP pretty easily.

Jr_gosetto · 09-17-2013, 01:01 PM

Cheers for the info mate. I knew that there wasn't much to be gained from a S-port but if the engine was going to be apart thought I might aswell just port it. And would a deburring/cleaning the runners so there is a smooth transition, or is this another case of just the old 13b was like that. And that is a good thing to think about in regards to the AP bc I was thinking of a turbo kit down the road, small amount of boost tho no more the 8 psi I might even run only 4 psi bc wen I turbo it I will be running the 10:1 cr rotars. Ill be honest tho idk how rotarys do with high comp and turbo, but I know piston engine DON'T like to be boosted wen compression is high. Is there a tread on hear by chance explaining high compression turbo setups and wat the possible repercussions are, posting a link would be great but all u have to say is yes or no and ill search it if there is. I know on piston engines a few things can happen with high comp turno setups, but the biggest one is snapping a conecting rod. So would to much boost on a 10:1cr rotary blow seals/crack a housing or anything like that, or would it just take it.

Plus the main reason I want to do a high comp turbo setup is I was talking to a guy I work with who owned an 8, he said the only reason they have a 10grand redline is bc over that an it cannot get enough air to continue to make power. He said if u put on a TD04 with mild boost you could raise the rpm. is this statement true, so I'm asking the experts(u guys)now lol.

09-16-2013, 10:53 AM	#9
reddozen Gold Wheels FTW Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 744 Rep Power: 17	Cob is not a piggy back. It's a PCM re-flash tool that reprograms the factory ECU. You don't leave it connected like say and SAFC-II (an actual piggy back). Even the Power FC is a stand alone computer (This is an FC / FD computer though)... __________________ My Cars: 1974 RX4 Coupe 1991 FC3S RX7 - Sold 2003 ZZW30 MR2 (Rotary swap after RX8) 2004 SE3P RX8 (20B Swap in the works)

09-16-2013, 11:46 AM	#11
reddozen Gold Wheels FTW Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 744 Rep Power: 17	You have to get the RX8 Cob though Mazda Maniac. He has an exclusive contract with them for the RX8. And no, other than logging data, you don't get any perks for leaving the Cob plugged into your 8. Regardless, it's not necessary to leave it plugged in for the car to maintain it's tune. If you get one used, you have to make sure that it's unmarried from the current owners car. Otherwise, Cob charges you like $300 to unlock it. __________________ My Cars: 1974 RX4 Coupe 1991 FC3S RX7 - Sold 2003 ZZW30 MR2 (Rotary swap after RX8) 2004 SE3P RX8 (20B Swap in the works)

09-17-2013, 09:40 AM	#14
reddozen Gold Wheels FTW Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 744 Rep Power: 17	The advantage of the AP setup is that Mazda Maniac will tune your car based on your setup. Also, you get to keep the tool, and you can use it to disable engine codes, tune the car again if you make further mods, etc. The racing beat flash s a generic flash that doesn't specifically take into account your car's setup. It's better than factory, but not as good as a complete tuning option. As for porting templates... There's really no room to port the exhaust ports without hitting the water jackets. Also, don't expect more than 5~10HP tops out of intake porting on the renesis. It's honestly not worth the cost. Intake, exhaust, headers... nothing really adds any power to the 8 without spending a LOT of money. Mazda actually did a good job at squeezing all the reliable power out of the motor from the factory. My car is bridge ported, AP tuned, intake, full exhaust, and I doubt I'm even pulling 220HP to the wheels (probably more like 210 tops on a good day). Compare this to guys with stock port motors that are serious racers making 200~230HP, and one could make the argument that porting does absolutely nothing for a renesis. You're looking at probably $100/1 HP on this motor. Just giving you the info so you can make your own decision. I'm not trying to run you off, or scare you away from it if you really want it. Just want you to know that it's not like an old 13b engine where porting and good intake / exhaust can net you 20~30HP pretty easily. __________________ My Cars: 1974 RX4 Coupe 1991 FC3S RX7 - Sold 2003 ZZW30 MR2 (Rotary swap after RX8) 2004 SE3P RX8 (20B Swap in the works) Last edited by reddozen; 09-17-2013 at 09:42 AM..

09-17-2013, 01:01 PM	#15
Jr_gosetto The Newbie Join Date: Aug 2013 iTrader: (0) Posts: 25 Rep Power: 0	Cheers for the info mate. I knew that there wasn't much to be gained from a S-port but if the engine was going to be apart thought I might aswell just port it. And would a deburring/cleaning the runners so there is a smooth transition, or is this another case of just the old 13b was like that. And that is a good thing to think about in regards to the AP bc I was thinking of a turbo kit down the road, small amount of boost tho no more the 8 psi I might even run only 4 psi bc wen I turbo it I will be running the 10:1 cr rotars. Ill be honest tho idk how rotarys do with high comp and turbo, but I know piston engine DON'T like to be boosted wen compression is high. Is there a tread on hear by chance explaining high compression turbo setups and wat the possible repercussions are, posting a link would be great but all u have to say is yes or no and ill search it if there is. I know on piston engines a few things can happen with high comp turno setups, but the biggest one is snapping a conecting rod. So would to much boost on a 10:1cr rotary blow seals/crack a housing or anything like that, or would it just take it. Plus the main reason I want to do a high comp turbo setup is I was talking to a guy I work with who owned an 8, he said the only reason they have a 10grand redline is bc over that an it cannot get enough air to continue to make power. He said if u put on a TD04 with mild boost you could raise the rpm. is this statement true, so I'm asking the experts(u guys)now lol. Last edited by Jr_gosetto; 09-17-2013 at 03:51 PM..

09-14-2013, 12:48 PM	#1
Jr_gosetto The Newbie Join Date: Aug 2013 iTrader: (0) Posts: 25 Rep Power: 0	Rx8 tuning help Hey guys I'm pretty new to the rotary scene. I know the engines pretty well at this point besides a few thing so if there is a link someone could post to learn more would great. im not to sure about how to tune the pcme. I have looked for piggyback's but I havnt been able to find any. So my question is can the pcme be open source tuned. I'm planing on doing a street port from mazdatrix bc i have ti rebuil the engine anyways and wanted to tune the engine aswell to try and get a few extra ponys. Any help would be much appreciated.

09-14-2013, 06:11 PM	#2
Dannobre Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Oct 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 87 Rep Power: 16	Cobb AP is one way... MazdaEdit is a new programmer that some are having luck with. Seems a bit more difficult to use....but good for tinkerers that are good with computers

09-15-2013, 08:36 PM	#6
JL1RX7 Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Front Royal, VA iTrader: (1) Posts: 487 Rep Power: 17	Two ways - Cobb Accessport if you are series one eight. Its a piggy back like the PFC for 3rd gens. Second gut the stock CANbus PCM and run your own. Some people have used GOODbox and a few other hacks into the PCM. But nothing is really out in the world that will get you much. Better off sticking to what you have stock or spend 1k to 2k for Cobb and tuning for ten or so HP. Really the major thing with Cobb is you can change or T-stat fan operation and make the oil injectors put more oil in. Comes down to this. What and how much do you REALLY want to spend. Ask that question first then look to see what is out there.

09-18-2013, 03:57 PM	#8
Jr_gosetto The Newbie Join Date: Aug 2013 iTrader: (0) Posts: 25 Rep Power: 0	And I'm just elaborating on my previous post about the NA with a Bridgeport. I'm not saying these is no aim to be had from a Bridgeported NA 13b. But from what I have heard the gain in power isn't worth the trade off in reliability/maintainence. I have heard guys running Bridgeported rx7's have to change the spark plugs about every 3 weeks, oil changes much more frequently, and it makes the milage much worse. Plus the same guys say it dosnt have neer as much low end. Also like I said I a previous post (give it a quick look over its #13) anyone know about high compression turbo setup.

09-17-2013, 06:32 AM	#13
Jr_gosetto The Newbie Join Date: Aug 2013 iTrader: (0) Posts: 25 Rep Power: 0	Well I have just looked at racing beat website and saw they have a port template aswell and a PCM flash for the renisis with there street port. The PCM reflash is 300 and anothe 100 for the template. Where if I go with the Mazdatrix template for 100 I'd be looking at the 600 for the AP. so does anyone have a link of these 2 being compared possibly or a little write up. It seems the racing beat S-port and reflash route would be cheaper then just the AP. I don't mind spending extra $ on a better performing setup, but if its not a noticble differance y spend the extra $.