800+rwhp 13B PP

[Oyvindjs]

turn up sound, there is a jet inc..!
Check out that hp curve and range...! I-N-S-A-N-E!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvg19...layer_embedded

[Silver86]

Holy crap!

[RICE RACING]

350kpa boost, another 30kpa over what I ran two days ago in the logs I posted up...... I bet you its not on pump petrol though lol.

[Oyvindjs]

nah, its some Q-16 shit, not pump.
Still, the area under the curve is very nice!

[RETed]

Actually, the video label says semi-PP, so it's not a full PP...

Am I the only one disappointed with the *torque* graph?
Although the X-axis is not labelled in RPM's, if we assume 4.10 rear end, standard gearing on a stock FD trans...looks like 5th gear pull?

Assuming tires are close to stock rolling diameter...
2,000 = 50mph
3,000 = 75mph
4,000 = 100mph
(Wow, works out nice for 25mph per 1,000RPM's?)
5,000 = 125mph
6,000 = 150mph
7,000 = 175mph
8,000 = 200mph

Assuming + or - 500RPM's due to different tire size, etc...
Peak torque ~4,800RPM?
Redline ~7,100RPM?

Torque drop from peak torque to redline just about 100 lb-ft???
Something doesn't jive...
With the semi-PP, I would think the peak torque would be a lot higher?
Also, the torque drop wouldn't be as drastic with the semi-PP?
20% drop in torque over 30% of it's rev range (actually more like 50% over it's usable rev range) is a lot to me...

Am I way off base here???


-Ted

[RICE RACING]

Semi PP motors *street applications* don't make hi rpm power really, look at the dyno curve and peak power of the old Scoot FD (710ps @ engine @ 7100rpm @ 29psi boost).

These "curves can be mis leading.

If you go on my web site and look at the Capella that did 600rwhp on our Aussie dyno @ 24psi (LOL which probably equals 750rwhp on your types you use LOL) you will see a similar FAT and FLAT power curve for over 100kmh wheels speed.

On the road its a total horses cock as shown up by a 90-140kmh 4700rpm to 8000rpm (inc wheel slip) 3rd gear acceleration test. The proof is in the acceleration times, NOT IN THE WORTHLESS DYNO SHEETS.

[RICE RACING]

These motors make NOTHING below 5000rpm to 5500rpm, and for the street that is a ****.

[RICE RACING]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqo5u...eature=related

This is a VERY well known car that has done a few VBOX runs.

Low boost run at race track

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ3u5...hannel&list=UL

No Peripheral port or horse cock inlet manifolds needed and higher power on lower boost LOL

[forcefed7]

Just curious, what do you consider high rpm and acceptable torque output at 5-5.5k rpm?

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Semi PP motors *street applications* don't make hi rpm power really, look at the dyno curve and peak power of the old Scoot FD (710ps @ engine @ 7100rpm @ 29psi boost).

These "curves can be mis leading.

If you go on my web site and look at the Capella that did 600rwhp on our Aussie dyno @ 24psi (LOL which probably equals 750rwhp on your types you use LOL) you will see a similar FAT and FLAT power curve for over 100kmh wheels speed.

On the road its a total horses cock as shown up by a 90-140kmh 4700rpm to 8000rpm (inc wheel slip) 3rd gear acceleration test. The proof is in the acceleration times, NOT IN THE WORTHLESS DYNO SHEETS.

[forcefed7]

Originally Posted by RETed

Actually, the video label says semi-PP, so it's not a full PP...

Am I the only one disappointed with the *torque* graph?
Although the X-axis is not labelled in RPM's, if we assume 4.10 rear end, standard gearing on a stock FD trans...looks like 5th gear pull?

Assuming tires are close to stock rolling diameter...
2,000 = 50mph
3,000 = 75mph
4,000 = 100mph
(Wow, works out nice for 25mph per 1,000RPM's?)
5,000 = 125mph
6,000 = 150mph
7,000 = 175mph
8,000 = 200mph

Assuming + or - 500RPM's due to different tire size, etc...
Peak torque ~4,800RPM?
Redline ~7,100RPM?

Torque drop from peak torque to redline just about 100 lb-ft???
Something doesn't jive...
With the semi-PP, I would think the peak torque would be a lot higher?
Also, the torque drop wouldn't be as drastic with the semi-PP?
20% drop in torque over 30% of it's rev range (actually more like 50% over it's usable rev range) is a lot to me...

Am I way off base here???


-Ted

Hey Ted,

The torque curve looks strange because of two things.

-Tire/clutch slippage when the vehicle comes into boost

-Boost dropping off at higher rpms.

Dyno runs were done in 4th gear using a stock FD trans. Tire circumference is about 79"

The graph in the middle shows calculated gear ratio, this line is fairly straight if there is no slippage. Peak torque output is actually in the 530-560 range.

The bottom graph is the boost, near the end of the run the boost is only about 28psi. The wastegate being a 66mm unit with a 12-13 psi spring has a lot of surface area, and once you get up in the higher revs/power output the exhaust back pressure starts to go a little over 1:1 and pushes the valve open, limiting the boost.

If you were to calculate the average acceleration rate (now that you know the engine rpm) I don't think you'd be too disappointed

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by forcefed7

Hey Ted,

The torque curve looks strange because of two things.

-Tire/clutch slippage when the vehicle comes into boost

-Boost dropping off at higher rpms.

Dyno runs were done in 4th gear using a stock FD trans. Tire circumference is about 79"

The graph in the middle shows calculated gear ratio, this line is fairly straight if there is no slippage. Peak torque output is actually in the 530-560 range.

The bottom graph is the boost, near the end of the run the boost is only about 28psi. The wastegate being a 66mm unit with a 12-13 psi spring has a lot of surface area, and once you get up in the higher revs/power output the exhaust back pressure starts to go a little over 1:1 and pushes the valve open, limiting the boost.

If you were to calculate the average acceleration rate (now that you know the engine rpm) I don't think you'd be too disappointed

On the road in the real world with quick transient conditions that thing would not develop full boost till 6k rpm or more in 2nd or 3rd gears especially, so far as 4k to 5k forget it.

It's a really nice set up for high power dyno competitions though

If you send me the vehicle run weight along with a VBOX .vbo or .dbn file, I'll see what power it makes on the street when you do an acceleration test with it, with that gearing though to do 100kmh to 200kmh you will probably be using 2nd and 3rd gears at a guess, rather than 3rd and 4th like we do.

[forcefed7]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

On the road in the real world with quick transient conditions that thing would not develop full boost till 6k rpm or more in 2nd or 3rd gears especially, so far as 4k to 5k forget it.

It's a really nice set up for high power dyno competitions though

If you send me the vehicle run weight along with a VBOX .vbo or .dbn file, I'll see what power it makes on the street when you do an acceleration test with it, with that gearing though to do 100kmh to 200kmh you will probably be using 2nd and 3rd gears at a guess, rather than 3rd and 4th like we do.

It's not as "laggy" as you might think, but even if it didn't make full boost until 6k it still has a usable rev range of another 4800rpm. Assuming grip is equal, 2nd and 3rd gear will higher acceleration rates. Unfortunately I don't own a VBOX to be able to send you a log file.

You never commented on what you consider to be acceptable torque output at 5-5.5k and you term "high engine rpm"

[RETed]

Originally Posted by forcefed7

The torque curve looks strange because of two things.

-Tire/clutch slippage when the vehicle comes into boost

-Boost dropping off at higher rpms.

Hey, appreciate offering more information on this set-up!

The assumption was that nothing was slipping and that 100% (or close to it) of the power was getting to the dyno...
I give you credit that the graph is really smooth for stuff slipping during the run!
The smooth graph was the reason why I assumed there were no problem...
Hell, even watching the vid, I didn't see no obvious signs of slipage...

Yeah, the power drop had me scratching my head...
I thought for a split second that maybe the turbo (turbine) was too small but dismissed it cause of the total power output.
Hadn't thought that of the wastegate not being able to hold the pressure all the way through - 66mm (Tial?) yikes!

My problem was that I did not have sound when I viewed the video...DOH.
When I tried to punch in the gear ratios for a 4th gear 1:1, it was way over stock redline...another DOH.
With the graph shifted over like that, now the graph makes more sense.

I've got one question, if you don't mind...
How is your intake system designed?
Stock TB with modified stock intake manifold?
Single aftermarket TB with custom runners with everything running through it?
Semi-PP's running through it's own dedicated TB system?


-Ted

[forcefed7]

Originally Posted by RETed

Hey, appreciate offering more information on this set-up!

The assumption was that nothing was slipping and that 100% (or close to it) of the power was getting to the dyno...
I give you credit that the graph is really smooth for stuff slipping during the run!
The smooth graph was the reason why I assumed there were no problem...
Hell, even watching the vid, I didn't see no obvious signs of slipage...

Yeah, the power drop had me scratching my head...
I thought for a split second that maybe the turbo (turbine) was too small but dismissed it cause of the total power output.
Hadn't thought that of the wastegate not being able to hold the pressure all the way through - 66mm (Tial?) yikes!

My problem was that I did not have sound when I viewed the video...DOH.
When I tried to punch in the gear ratios for a 4th gear 1:1, it was way over stock redline...another DOH.
With the graph shifted over like that, now the graph makes more sense.

I've got one question, if you don't mind...
How is your intake system designed?
Stock TB with modified stock intake manifold?
Single aftermarket TB with custom runners with everything running through it?
Semi-PP's running through it's own dedicated TB system?


-Ted

Hi Ted,
The wastegate is a Precision 66mm. When I first started the tuning I had softer springs in it, and it was capable keeping the boost as low as 8psi.

The intake manifold and throttle body is from Xtreme Rotary. The throttle body has four throttle plates, with the primary plates work off of a progressive linkage design. Drivablity is excellent. I did have to make some changes to it, but overall great product.

[forcefed7]

double post.