Eating clutch master

sen2two · 07-03-2011, 04:33 PM

My car seems to eat a clutch master cylinder every few months. I cant see any reason it would be doing this except for one thing. I had a clutch line made and it kinda extra long for no real reason except for i guessed the length instead of measuring it. And its more of a rubber brake line material not hard lined or braided. Could an extra long clutch line cause the cylinder to over work and fail? Also it being non steel braided and not hard lined making it flex causing the cylinder to work even harder.

I have no other idea why it would be doing this... any ideas?

TS87FC3S · 07-03-2011, 07:05 PM

it shouldnt the fluid in the line should take up the extra space and master should just have to create the same pressure and movement to make slave move, might just be bad parts! but i have a master, hard line, soft line and slave for sale make offer, just saying lol

***TitaniumTT*** · 07-03-2011, 07:06 PM

No, that's silly

Your pedal is probably out of adjustment causing the cylinder to go down too far, or not far enough.

Are you sure the master is puking? Is it leaking? What fluid are you using?

RETed · 07-04-2011, 02:04 AM

It's not the line unless the lining is causing the failure - i.e. particles falling off or reacting with the brake fluid?

Longer or softer clutch lines actually help with the reliability of the whole system.
Some race teams will run softer (i.e. rubber, non-braid / non-hard line) on the clutch hydraulics to help minimize the "shock" of the using the clutch pedal - this is especially true on endurance racing.

-Ted

sen2two · 07-04-2011, 09:52 AM

I had three master cylinders go bad in a year. And I don't drive it more than 3-4 times a week. I know its the master because when I change it, the problem is solved. For fluid i use whatever i have on my shelves in the garage. I don't really drive it hard too often. Only when it sees the 1/4 mile really. And that's every few months.

So you guys agree on pedal adjustment being the problem?

RETed · 07-04-2011, 06:23 PM

Where are you getting the replacement clutch masters from?
If you're getting it from the neighborhood auto parts store, beware of inferior "rebuilt" / "remanufacturered" units.
A lot of these cheapie reman units have very bad quality control.

If you want to check, disassemble them and check the bore smoothness.
If they are bad, the bore will be pitted, and this will eat any new seals in a jiffy.

-Ted

sen2two · 07-05-2011, 08:07 AM

the first one came with my front clip swap. The second one I pulled from a parts car I had. The third one was the original from the car when I first got it.

so they are all used, but it's a little too coincidental for them all to be bad or worn out.

RETed · 07-05-2011, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sen2two

the first one came with my front clip swap. The second one I pulled from a parts car I had. The third one was the original from the car when I first got it.

so they are all used, but it's a little too coincidental for them all to be bad or worn out.

Are the rest of your hydraulics in top shape - i.e. brand new and just swapped out?
If so, I can believe all 3 of them would fail.

Stop messing around with that used crap and get a rebuilt one from the auto parts store.

-Ted

My5ABaby · 07-05-2011, 09:28 AM

If one that old is bad, it's not coincidence when more are, it's expected. I just helped a friend who had 3 bad FPRs in a row, but all used. He put on a new one, fixed. if it's a 50% chance an old one is bad, after 3 that's 12.5%. Kinda rare, but not ridiculous.

NoDOHC · 07-05-2011, 11:18 PM

If you let a hydraulic component (brakes or clutch) sit around without any fluid for very long, it will go bad, even if it was fine when removed. What happens is that the seals dry out and crack, the component works for a short time, but fails very quickly.

The linkage is easy to adjust, I make it engage just as the spring assist is reaching the neutral point, the cylinder should be Ok for a pretty good range of motion though.

***TitaniumTT*** · 07-05-2011, 11:39 PM

The last 2 posts are spot on, you're putting on parts that you don't know the history or condition of. I'm blaming the parts here, not something being out of adjustment. Buy a rebuilt one, check the condition of it, and be happy for a long time

sen2two · 07-06-2011, 09:27 AM

Your all wrong and stupid!

lol...Just kidding. I'm on my way to the store now to get a new one. But i doubt they will have one on hand.

RETed · 07-07-2011, 10:06 AM

Just one cavaet...

If this is the first failure in your (clutch hydraulic) system, be prepared to spend more money and more time in fixing everything.
This is especially true if all your components - clutch master cylinder, slave hose, clutch slave cylinder - are all original.
This is the weakest-link-in-the-chain scenario...
The weakest part of the hydraulic system fails first.
Once you replace the part that fails, the new part is stronger than the rest of the others and puts more stress on them, causing them to fail eventually.

-Ted

Pete_89T2 · 07-07-2011, 04:51 PM

^Roger that. The good news is the clutch hydraulics parts, even new, are relatively cheap. I recently replaced mine with new master & slave cylinders (Beck-Arnley OEM replacement parts), plus shipping came in at about $50 from Rockauto.com. Quick & easy job too.

Max777 · 07-25-2011, 08:09 PM

Ok, guys come on even rebuilt is stupid. The clutch master and slave are each around $50 brand new from Mazdatrix, why would you even consider rebuilt it it's roughly the same price? Working at a dealership for a while, I came to trust the quality of oem parts a lot more, after seeing so much aftermarket crap fail after only a few years, even months, on the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazdatrix site

The Clutch Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder do wear out. We have not seen satisfactory (100%) success when they are "rebuilt." Our preferred choice is to replace worn/leaking cylinders with new, although we do carry rebuild kits. The rubber flex line to the slave cylinder should also be closely inspected for deterioration and replaced if not in excellent condition.

07-03-2011, 04:33 PM	#1
sen2two KTEC Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (2) Posts: 642 Rep Power: 0	Eating clutch master My car seems to eat a clutch master cylinder every few months. I cant see any reason it would be doing this except for one thing. I had a clutch line made and it kinda extra long for no real reason except for i guessed the length instead of measuring it. And its more of a rubber brake line material not hard lined or braided. Could an extra long clutch line cause the cylinder to over work and fail? Also it being non steel braided and not hard lined making it flex causing the cylinder to work even harder. I have no other idea why it would be doing this... any ideas? __________________ what I have: 1985 Gs:12a All motor Drag car - 1973 Rx2: Play car What I had: 93 Touring: TRADED - 91 Coupe: TRADED - 90 GTU: RHD - 88 10AE: SOLD - 87 Base: SOLD - 86 Base: SOLD - 1985 GSLSE - 85 Gsl: SOLD - 80 Gs: TRADED - 1972 Rx2

07-03-2011, 07:05 PM	#2
TS87FC3S Ask Me About My WANKEL!!! Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Missouri iTrader: (1) Posts: 127 Rep Power: 15	it shouldnt the fluid in the line should take up the extra space and master should just have to create the same pressure and movement to make slave move, might just be bad parts! but i have a master, hard line, soft line and slave for sale make offer, just saying lol __________________ 1984 Rx7 Gs - stripped interior re speed coil overs, tokico blues, re speed crossmemeber and mustang rack, diamond star racing wheels 1988 Rx7 Se - Sold 1988 Rx7 GXL - Sold

07-03-2011, 07:06 PM	#3
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	No, that's silly Your pedal is probably out of adjustment causing the cylinder to go down too far, or not far enough. Are you sure the master is puking? Is it leaking? What fluid are you using? __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

07-04-2011, 09:52 AM	#5
sen2two KTEC Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (2) Posts: 642 Rep Power: 0	I had three master cylinders go bad in a year. And I don't drive it more than 3-4 times a week. I know its the master because when I change it, the problem is solved. For fluid i use whatever i have on my shelves in the garage. I don't really drive it hard too often. Only when it sees the 1/4 mile really. And that's every few months. So you guys agree on pedal adjustment being the problem? __________________ what I have: 1985 Gs:12a All motor Drag car - 1973 Rx2: Play car What I had: 93 Touring: TRADED - 91 Coupe: TRADED - 90 GTU: RHD - 88 10AE: SOLD - 87 Base: SOLD - 86 Base: SOLD - 1985 GSLSE - 85 Gsl: SOLD - 80 Gs: TRADED - 1972 Rx2

07-05-2011, 08:07 AM	#7
sen2two KTEC Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (2) Posts: 642 Rep Power: 0	the first one came with my front clip swap. The second one I pulled from a parts car I had. The third one was the original from the car when I first got it. so they are all used, but it's a little too coincidental for them all to be bad or worn out. __________________ what I have: 1985 Gs:12a All motor Drag car - 1973 Rx2: Play car What I had: 93 Touring: TRADED - 91 Coupe: TRADED - 90 GTU: RHD - 88 10AE: SOLD - 87 Base: SOLD - 86 Base: SOLD - 1985 GSLSE - 85 Gsl: SOLD - 80 Gs: TRADED - 1972 Rx2

07-05-2011, 09:28 AM	#9
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	If one that old is bad, it's not coincidence when more are, it's expected. I just helped a friend who had 3 bad FPRs in a row, but all used. He put on a new one, fixed. if it's a 50% chance an old one is bad, after 3 that's 12.5%. Kinda rare, but not ridiculous. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

07-05-2011, 11:18 PM	#10
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin iTrader: (1) Posts: 855 Rep Power: 17	If you let a hydraulic component (brakes or clutch) sit around without any fluid for very long, it will go bad, even if it was fine when removed. What happens is that the seals dry out and crack, the component works for a short time, but fails very quickly. The linkage is easy to adjust, I make it engage just as the spring assist is reaching the neutral point, the cylinder should be Ok for a pretty good range of motion though. __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic)

07-05-2011, 11:39 PM	#11
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	The last 2 posts are spot on, you're putting on parts that you don't know the history or condition of. I'm blaming the parts here, not something being out of adjustment. Buy a rebuilt one, check the condition of it, and be happy for a long time __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

07-06-2011, 09:27 AM	#12
sen2two KTEC Join Date: Jan 2009 iTrader: (2) Posts: 642 Rep Power: 0	Your all wrong and stupid! lol...Just kidding. I'm on my way to the store now to get a new one. But i doubt they will have one on hand. __________________ what I have: 1985 Gs:12a All motor Drag car - 1973 Rx2: Play car What I had: 93 Touring: TRADED - 91 Coupe: TRADED - 90 GTU: RHD - 88 10AE: SOLD - 87 Base: SOLD - 86 Base: SOLD - 1985 GSLSE - 85 Gsl: SOLD - 80 Gs: TRADED - 1972 Rx2

07-07-2011, 04:51 PM	#14
Pete_89T2 Lifetime Rotorhead Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Elkton, MD iTrader: (1) Posts: 874 Rep Power: 15	^Roger that. The good news is the clutch hydraulics parts, even new, are relatively cheap. I recently replaced mine with new master & slave cylinders (Beck-Arnley OEM replacement parts), plus shipping came in at about $50 from Rockauto.com. Quick & easy job too.