Diary of a Madman; TitaniumTT's see you @ DGRRXI RE-REbuild

[TitaniumTT]

So it's time to start a new. I figure we can devote this new thread to all the new doing's that are going on with the FC and leave the old DGRR '09 thread as what is has become, a blog of sorts

So, what's in store for the ole' FC for DGRRX?

Well, first and foremost is a bath, a glaze and a wax. Then I'm going to find a slow draw on the electrical system. There's something from the factory that is killing the battery over the course of a few days. After that the interior is coming out, completely. Then the hood's coming off, the fenders, the doors, the engines coming out, the hatch is coming off, the sunroof and motor, all the suspension is coming out, the fuel tank is getting dropped, all the fuel/brake lines are coming off and what remains will get taped up and be put up on the rotisserie.

With the car upside down there is a little bit of undercarriage rot that needs to be addressed, as well as some strengthening of the, jackpoints that aren't jackpoints. I'm thinking about welding in some 1/4" plate and reinforcing it so that I can jack one side of the car at once while @ the track. After all that is done, the entire undercarriage will be epoxy primed and herculined - P/U truck bedliner material.

Then the reassembly begins. New, I repeat NEW S5 fuel tank and straps, the tank will probably be externally lined as well. The fuel and the brake-lines will be reinstalled, my rebuilt Torsen rear so Alex can have his back, and his fuel tank the suspension will be put back on and the car will be put on the ground.

Once down it's time to finish installing the RX8 seats with the new welded nuts that I'm planning on installing. Then the interior is getting a few coats of Lizard Skin. After that it's time to start with the traction control. A little bit of wiring through the interior up to where the factory ECU once lived for the MoTeC Traction Control Multiplexer. Then of course it's all coming out to be put into the factory wiring. Also planning on cleaning up a few of the wiring that I installed over the past 13 years. Things that I installed that should've been in the factory block will eventually end up there, along with the cut-off switch etc etc, and there is a dead wire in the Front Harness that needs to be hunted down, moving the fuel pump switch to the rear, installing an inverter new amps, a new sub maybe........ I hate wiring.

So then it's time for the interior to go back together. Nothing is really getting changed with the exception of the armrest, e-brake cover and shifter boot from redline, and a new 6-spd shift knob Installing the seat belts but redoing the webbing in Black or grey to match the rest of the interior. Hoping to get a new steering column cover, repaint the shifter and stereo surround and buliding some sort of custom cup holders.... I know I know, but I need a steady supply and a good place to put my RedBull for the trip down. I'm thinking something that comes out of the glove box when it flips down and is totally invisible otherwise.

Once the interior is back together, it's time to address the engine. There are a few things that I want to address with the setup. First is the fuel system... yes still. There are some new injectors that hit the market recently that should not only solve the duty cycle issues that I'm having (93%) and the linearity of them is supposed to be incredible. Ontop of that I'm swapping out to some LS2 Yukon coils or a Bosch unit. Still need to make a phone call to decide on which setup. Then I need to find an equally sexy way to mount them as the LS1 coils that I have now.... then some new wires as well and figuring out which of my turbo cartidges are leaking a bit.

The Alternator, Waterpump, a few other bits of intake piping, some tanks and the strut tower braces are getting recoated so that they match perfectly.

The hood, front bumper and sunroof are getting repaired and repainted and if there is time the doors as well. Once everything is assembled the last order of business is the belly pan that I've been putting off as well as the front brake ducting. I've decided to hold off on the BBK becuase I simply don't need it. I'm able to lock up the front brakes even with the race tires on, I don't have any brake fade issues as of yet, and the $$$$ can be better spent on the FD project in the future. I will however swap the rear calipers as I'm pretty sure they are sticking slightly.

So, to recap and give a list -
1) Bath
2) Glaze and wax
3) Fog engine
4) Find slow draw
5) Strip interior
6) Remove hood, fenders, doors, hatch
7) Pull Engine/trans
8) Strip engine bay
9) Drop Fuel tank
10) Remove all fuel/brake lines
11) Strip all harnesses from car
12) Tape Chassis
13) Put the girl on the Rotisserie
14) Address the undercarriage rust/rot
15) Strengthen "jackpoints"
16) Fab NEW jack points
17) Prime undercarriage
18) Hurculine UnderCarriage
19) Install Fuel/Brake Lines
20) Install NEW fuel tank
21) Install Torsen rear and front/rear suspension
22) Take the girl off the rotisserie and get her on the jackstands, on the new points
23) Fabricate the remaining seat mounts
24) Lizardskin the interior
25) Install the sensors for the Traction control and run the wires.
26) Mount the TCM and remount the MoTeC where the factory ECU once lived
27) Re-wire some of the power for the PW,PDL, alarm, MoTeC, fuel pump etc etc etc.
28) Neaten up all the harnesses and re-install them
29) Fix the wiper switch
30) Repaint the shifter surround, center surround
31) Re-install the interior with all the new bits, seats, seatbelts, etc etc.
32) Mount RedBull holders
33) Install new headunit, new PDX5 amp, new sub, and inverter
34) Fix the seeping front cover o-ring, new oil pump
35) New injectors & fuel rails
36) New coils and wires
37) Replace seeping cartridge
38) Repowdercoat/Ceramic coat a few of the bits that need to be
39) Install engine and super secret trans
40) Fabricate trans mount
41) New Custom AL driveshaft
42) New intake piping?****
43) Repair/Repaint front bumper, hood, sunroof, and doors if there is time.
43) Fabricate AL belly pan and brake ducting
45) Install the custom AL washer bottle and figure out where to hide the nozzles.
46) Alignment
47) Corner Weighting
48) Rebalance tires
49) Back to KDR for some dyno tuning


Not a bad list, but there are only 94 days left until it's time to leave...... yikes..... I better get my shit together..... but take it apart first, like ALL the way apart

[TitaniumTT]

Question as I am undecided...... Do I want to keep the intake piping as is


or redesign it to use only one filter such as this one



Single filter, dual inlets though...... hmmmmm, which would be cleaner/sexier?

[proz07]

tell me more of these ls2 coils or the bosch unit? why are you changing from the ls1 setup and what are you planning on it lighting off? im interested as i may be dumping my pfc for the AEM 1900u and i will need a bad ass ignition setup to fire anything from e85 to a couple hundred CC of water anything up to 25psi at least. these are rough estimates for me but again why have you decided on the new coil setup?

z

[WE3RX7]

That list and timeline should be no problem at all...


As for the air filter, with your fab skills, I think a single filter with a nice custom box around it would do nicely.

Pros:
1. Quicker replacement / cleaning
2. Easier to build box for it
3. Less "cluttered" engine bay
4. Less weight (you could potentially reduce the piping without affecting performance)

Cons:
1. Less surface area for filtration (correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like if you measured the two vs the one, two has more surface area)
2. Time... you only have 94 days
3. Single POF (point of failure)

Thats my two cents on it. If it were me, I'd probably keep the twin setup.... for now.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by proz07

tell me more of these ls2 coils or the bosch unit? why are you changing from the ls1 setup and what are you planning on it lighting off? im interested as i may be dumping my pfc for the AEM 1900u and i will need a bad ass ignition setup to fire anything from e85 to a couple hundred CC of water anything up to 25psi at least. these are rough estimates for me but again why have you decided on the new coil setup?

z

People have been touting the LS1 coils for a LONG time yet they only produce ~60mj. LS2 coils require less dwell time and pump out 125mj. I don't know about the Bosch coils. Still waiting that phonecall back. The reason for the swap is pure experiment. On the Dyno Dave and I would make small changes to the L and pick up BIG gains. There are two reasons for that. The coils aren't pumping out enough power to light the mix, or my engine is just very sensitive to AF's. It could honestly be either one, OR it could even be weak wires. Plan is to build new wires and get on the dyno with the new new injectors. Run her for a baseline then swap the wires. Run her again and see if there is any difference. Swap the coils and use the same brand wires and run her again see if there is a difference in power. Then sell whatever setup I choose as it would be an incredibly sexy, almost bolt on ignition system for anyone with a standalone.

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

That list and timeline should be no problem at all...


As for the air filter, with your fab skills, I think a single filter with a nice custom box around it would do nicely.

Pros:
1. Quicker replacement / cleaning
2. Easier to build box for it
3. Less "cluttered" engine bay
4. Less weight (you could potentially reduce the piping without affecting performance)

Cons:
1. Less surface area for filtration (correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like if you measured the two vs the one, two has more surface area)
2. Time... you only have 94 days
3. Single POF (point of failure)

Thats my two cents on it. If it were me, I'd probably keep the twin setup.... for now.

I think for the time being I'm going to keep the twin setup as I can run her just fine with it as is. If there's time, then I'll go and fab up the single setup as I agree, I think it would be a little neater. I'm not sure about a plexi top though, I think getting enough air in there would be a little difficult without cutting up the bulkhead. We'll see, I've got 94 days.

[FC3S Murray]

I agree, with your fab skills Brian I think a single filter with a custom air box(maybe something like alum with a clear plexi top would be sex)! Check out the pic of this diesel SB intake set up...just imagine with alum box.

[djmtsu]

I have an aluminum air box for an FC that has a plexi layer on the inside. Fits right in the front corner. It was made by some guy on 7club. He made a bunch of them, but like most FC guys, they all bailed when it was time to pony up the cash.

I got lucky and snagged one up, but never got around to actually installing it. The only thing you need is a custom TID, which I never got around to fabbing....because I can't fab.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by FC3S Murray

I agree, with your fab skills Brian I think a single filter with a custom air box(maybe something like alum with a clear plexi top would be sex)! Check out the pic of this diesel SB intake set up...just imagine with alum box.

Originally Posted by djmtsu

I have an aluminum air box for an FC that has a plexi layer on the inside. Fits right in the front corner. It was made by some guy on 7club. He made a bunch of them, but like most FC guys, they all bailed when it was time to pony up the cash.

I got lucky and snagged one up, but never got around to actually installing it. The only thing you need is a custom TID, which I never got around to fabbing....because I can't fab.

Thanks guys. I like the look of it, not sure how well it would fit in my bay though with the VMIC right there. I tried when I did the twin setup but it just looked odd.... I dunno, I dunno..... I like the theory alot, seems like it would be the way to go based on how many guys who have great looking cars are telling me to do it so it looks like I'll have to put it on the list

Oh Bill, I never did measure the diameters, the filter area, etc etc... allthough I probably should....

[helghast7]

looks like you have alot more on your plate then i do...at least today it was nice enough were i finally got that last shock in washing the engine bay tomorrow

i would love to see how the ignition system goes, if its usable for the pfc i would probably get whatever you end up making

[Turbo II Rotor]

You're crazy, a good kind of crazy, but crazy nonetheless. Can't wait to see it on the dragon this year.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by helghast7

looks like you have alot more on your plate then i do...at least today it was nice enough were i finally got that last shock in washing the engine bay tomorrow

i would love to see how the ignition system goes, if its usable for the pfc i would probably get whatever you end up making

Yeah, total dissasemble and reassemble in 94 days..... Like Dave said, I'm a sick individual.

The LSX coild should be useable with the PFC as they have thier own built in ignitors. We'll see though, I may not get any HP increase in which case I'll be selling my LS1 setup

Originally Posted by Turbo II Rotor

You're crazy, a good kind of crazy, but crazy nonetheless. Can't wait to see it on the dragon this year.

Me neither, I owe you a ride Scott. When are you planning on driving down? I wanna get a bitching caravan this year again.

[Force13b]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Yeah, total dissasemble and reassemble in 94 days..... Like Dave said, I'm a sick individual.

The LSX coild should be useable with the PFC as they have thier own built in ignitors. We'll see though, I may not get any HP increase in which case I'll be selling my LS1 setup

You can you LSX coils for a PFC but you're only going to get about 1/2 of the power out of them. The stock FD ignitor uses a falling edge signal from the ECU to trigger the coils, just like the signal that the LS coil needs. But because the PFC only drives the stock coils at 2.5 or so MS, you couldn't get anywhere near the full capability of the LS coils which can be driven at 5 MS. There's nowhere in the PowerFC to alter the charge time either...so you're stuck with low output.



Brian i just ordered a set of MSD Blaster coils 8245 they are just like the ls truck coils but more power.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by Force13b

You can you LSX coils for a PFC but you're only going to get about 1/2 of the power out of them. The stock FD ignitor uses a falling edge signal from the ECU to trigger the coils, just like the signal that the LS coil needs. But because the PFC only drives the stock coils at 2.5 or so MS, you couldn't get anywhere near the full capability of the LS coils which can be driven at 5 MS. There's nowhere in the PowerFC to alter the charge time either...so you're stuck with low output.



Brian i just ordered a set of MSD Blaster coils 8245 they are just like the ls truck coils but more power.

Huh, I didn't know that about the PFC - lame. However, that's sorta the problem that I'm having with the LS1 coils that I have. The problem with the rotary is the incredibly short charge time that's allowed between spark events. I sat down with my engineering buddy/MoTeC guru and we came up with a dwell table that allows basically the most charge time, and it's not all that suitable for the LS1 coils. Becuase of the rev's the charge time is dropped to (I THINK) 3-4ms in the high load/high RPM sites. Again, NOT getting full charge time. We just had a chat and he rec'd some coils out of an LS7 (I've got the Delco number written down) that can fire happily ALLLLLLLLL day long @ 2ms charge and produce the same mJ and up to 20% more than the LS1 coil @ 5ms. And they bolt in..... sorta.

So my plan is to hit the dyno again in April, Dave and I will tune the car with the new injectors, new coils. Then swap coils and make another pull. Same dwell table, same conditions and see if there is a drop in power from the LS7 to the LS1 coils.

Then I'll swap in the LS1 specific table dwell table and make another run. Side by side comparisions and we'll know for sure if the LS1 coil is suitable or not when given the full charge time allowed by the rotaries "timing."

Again, this is on the MoTeC with retarded amounts of adjustability so I'll be able to get the most out of the coils.....(I can even bump the dwell time when the boost comes on although right now it's just basic rpm vs dwell) just for fun if we remember though, we'll do a pull with the LS1 coils @ 2.5ms and the LS7 coils @ 2.5 ms (if they don't auto-discharge at that length) and see where we land. Ahhhhh, the beauty of dyno's..... I need to make a list.

End result will be dyno proven power gains from coil to coil at full allowed charge time and whether or not the LS1 coil is really suitable for a rotary. I tend to think, based on what Dave and I found on the Dyno, that the spark is a little weak, as you're pointing out Tyler, becusae we can only dwell the eff'er for 3-4 ms.

Tyler, just as an aside, when I first started this pj, I was warned AGAINST those coils by my MoTeC guru. He had a few engines pop on the engine dyno becusae of them. Now they may have changed some, and I know a few guys use them, but I would think twice about them. I would go with something else. I'm curious what the difference in mJ output to charge time is with those vs a stocker Denso D5whatever the LS1 is. Do you know? Are those the auto Multiple Spark they toyed around with years ago?

[Force13b]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Huh, I didn't know that about the PFC - lame. However, that's sorta the problem that I'm having with the LS1 coils that I have. The problem with the rotary is the incredibly short charge time that's allowed between spark events. I sat down with my engineering buddy/MoTeC guru and we came up with a dwell table that allows basically the most charge time, and it's not all that suitable for the LS1 coils. Becuase of the rev's the charge time is dropped to (I THINK) 3-4ms in the high load/high RPM sites. Again, NOT getting full charge time. We just had a chat and he rec'd some coils out of an LS7 (I've got the Delco number written down) that can fire happily ALLLLLLLLL day long @ 2ms charge and produce the same mJ and up to 20% more than the LS1 coil @ 5ms. And they bolt in..... sorta.

So my plan is to hit the dyno again in April, Dave and I will tune the car with the new injectors, new coils. Then swap coils and make another pull. Same dwell table, same conditions and see if there is a drop in power from the LS7 to the LS1 coils.

Then I'll swap in the LS1 specific table dwell table and make another run. Side by side comparisions and we'll know for sure if the LS1 coil is suitable or not when given the full charge time allowed by the rotaries "timing."

Again, this is on the MoTeC with retarded amounts of adjustability so I'll be able to get the most out of the coils.....(I can even bump the dwell time when the boost comes on although right now it's just basic rpm vs dwell) just for fun if we remember though, we'll do a pull with the LS1 coils @ 2.5ms and the LS7 coils @ 2.5 ms (if they don't auto-discharge at that length) and see where we land. Ahhhhh, the beauty of dyno's..... I need to make a list.

End result will be dyno proven power gains from coil to coil at full allowed charge time and whether or not the LS1 coil is really suitable for a rotary. I tend to think, based on what Dave and I found on the Dyno, that the spark is a little weak, as you're pointing out Tyler, becusae we can only dwell the eff'er for 3-4 ms.

Tyler, just as an aside, when I first started this pj, I was warned AGAINST those coils by my MoTeC guru. He had a few engines pop on the engine dyno becusae of them. Now they may have changed some, and I know a few guys use them, but I would think twice about them. I would go with something else. I'm curious what the difference in mJ output to charge time is with those vs a stocker Denso D5whatever the LS1 is. Do you know? Are those the auto Multiple Spark they toyed around with years ago?

I'm currently running the yukon/escalade coils but i got them off ebay and like most ebay shit 1 of them is crapping out, i've already fould 1 plug in a few 1k miles and i'm getting some break up underload.

I bought a coil setup off someone on the forum. MSD primary and yukon/escalde coils for secondary. I haven't ready anything about the msd's causing people to pop motors how would a coil cause that? Now you got me all parinoid

I was told the yukon/escalade coil was the 1 to get so i started there. I haven't heard anything bad about the MSD. I have talked to a couple guys running e85 and using the MSD coils and say they work great.

Only specs i have on the MSD coils

[Turbo II Rotor]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Scott, do you have you're setup running yet? I wanna hear these pumps of yours and see if it was the metal to metal mounting on mine or what.

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Me neither, I owe you a ride Scott. When are you planning on driving down? I wanna get a bitching caravan this year again.

I have no idea when I'm going down. I'll be taking a nice long car drive with Nate out to PA tomorrow to look at an FC I think my be flooded so I'll have plenty of time to get our heads together for this year. You are leaving Thursday morning correct? You doing the cabin dealy again? Let me know if it's still possible to get in on that as I'd jump on it in an instant.

Car is not running but I fully expect to beast it out and drive it down to DGRR. I got way too caught up in saving all my earnings so I will have that 20% down payment for a house. Kinda reassessed my life a little bit prioritized my wants and needs. Just started grabbing up overtime at work since it's easy money and signed up for 2 college classes in micro and macro economics so that will cut into my car building time but I got 3 months and there should be no reason it for it not to be driveable by then.

My pumps will be double insulated with sheet rubber and soft mounted to the chassis which I'm hoping will quiet them down. I also built a way over kill surge tank that will probably end up in the hatch. Hopefully soon we'll see how loud these things purr.