Re-installing air conditioning

speedjunkie · 07-10-2013, 01:25 PM

I removed my AC back in 2008 when I put my VMIC in, since it was going to take longer than I wanted to spend at the time to mount everything back in there, due to the different angle of the condenser and so forth. But after looking at everything it doesn't look like it will be that bad. I'm gathering all the pieces to put my AC back in, and I know I need to replace the separator so I already ordered one from Ray, but I'm wondering what else I should replace. I have all the pieces, although my condenser is pretty beat up, but I got another one of those. Also, I didn't close off my lines going into the evaporator (that stick out through the firewall into the engine bay), so I'm not sure how much dirt and crud is inside there now and I'd like to make sure it's cleaned out inside. I'm pulling the dash to get the heater core fixed so I can have heat again too, so while I'm in there I'm going to take out the evaporator and clean it up like I've seen on some other threads recently (Theorie lol).

My compressor is pretty nasty but I'm going to clean it up and make sure it's good. I'm just wondering about any seals in there, if I should replace them. I asked Ray about a rebuild kit for the compressor but Mazda no longer has them. I also asked about an o-ring kit for the lines but it would be $60+ for all those from Mazda so I'll buy a kit from a parts store.

So far I've checked to make sure the lines clear the single turbo and that I'll have room for the separator next to the VMIC, and amazingly enough it looks like all that will work. I'll have to bend the lines a bit so it will hook up to the condenser in it's new orientation, and I'll have to cut holes or slots or something in the ducting for the lines to go through, but I'm not too worried about that. I do remembering practically having to pull the engine to get the compressor out since the mounting bolts are so long, but I figure I'll just put them through the holes and then mount it instead of trying to hold it up and then slide the bolts through.

One thing that just crossed my mind...my AC/PS bracket is powdercoated, I'm hoping the compressor doesn't need to be grounded to that. If so, I'll have to take off some of the coating. I'm also going to heat wrap the hard lines going past the turbo. I know it probably doesn't matter functionally, but it will also help to cover up the ugliness of the lines since they're dinged up in a few places lol. I'm going to take off the black foam that came on them, it's all dry and brittle anyway.

Anything else you guys can think of that I need to check? I don't want to be pulling and replacing stuff because something's leaking or whatever. I want to install this stuff and be done with it.

GySgtFrank · 07-10-2013, 02:31 PM

I had new lines made for my SA down at the local shop that builds hydraulic lines. Pretty cheap actually. Mine were dry rotted and blown out, but it might be realtively cheap insurance on yours to replace them, since they're getting pretty old by now if they're still the stock lines.

speedjunkie · 07-10-2013, 03:51 PM

Well most of the line is aluminum hard line. Or are you talking about the flexible portions? Those parts are in pretty good shape, it's just the aluminum portions are dirty and dinged up so I was going to cover them, but I at least wanted to clean them out inside too. I'll look over the flexible portions of the lines though. Thanks for your input, Gunny!

GySgtFrank · 07-10-2013, 04:32 PM

Yeah, mine are mostly flexible so more vulnerable to rot than yours.

speedjunkie · 07-10-2013, 07:40 PM

I looked at the lines real quick and they looked alright, but I'm going to inspect them more in depth. I also cleaned the compressor and I found 3 of the 4 mounting bolts. ARGH!!!! lol I have so many parts, I have to have another one somewhere.

Whizbang · 07-10-2013, 08:12 PM

seals would be a good idea.

or a bucket of ice and a 12v fan

speedjunkie · 07-10-2013, 10:19 PM

Seals in the compressor?

Nah I'd rather have AC back in lol. I've dreaded this project for the last few years, but I'm actually kinda looking forward to it now.

Whizbang · 07-10-2013, 10:35 PM

at all the connection points. those little o-rings

speedjunkie · 07-11-2013, 01:07 AM

Yeah that's what I was talking about in my first post. For all the little orings from Mazda it would have been $60+ Ray said. I can get a whole kit from O'Reilly for $13 lol.

Pete_89T2 · 07-11-2013, 05:14 AM

I'm by no means an A/C expert, but I picked up a few good tips from this automotive A/C forum I found online when my FC's A/C crapped out and was in need of some repairs:

http://www.autoacforum.com/

Couple of tips I would suggest are:

(a) Replace all the O-rings in the lines

(b) Install a new receiver/dryer

(c) Replace all the soft lines, especially if you're switching over from R12 to the R134 refrigerant. (Soft lines made for R12 won't contain R134 over the long term because the R134 molecules are a lot smaller than R12, go figure!)

(d) If you can find a rebuild kit, I'd replace all the seals/soft parts in the compressor. The A/C forum can probably help you here because the Nippon Denso or Sanden compressors that were used on the FB/FC/FD's are common to a lots of other cars, and the repair/rebuild kits should still be available Look for a part # or ID tag on your compressor to try to figure out what you have as a starting point.

Another thing I'd suggest since your A/C has been open to the elements for a long time is flushing all the components you'll be reusing (evaporator core, condenser, hard lines, etc.) with the appropriate solvent for whatever refrigerant & oil you had in there or plan to use when you close it up. This is another area I'd seek out better advice though, because there are chemical compatibility gotcha's to deal with.

Good luck with the A/C work.

speedjunkie · 07-11-2013, 08:12 AM

a) Definitely getting a seal kit

b) Ordered a new dryer from Ray Crowe, ~$150 YIKES! Would have been $200+ without Ray's discount, he's the man!

c) I was reading a thread on the evil forum and the guys were saying ES-12 gets way colder than R134a and is pretty similar to R12.

d) Someone in that thread also said that one of the Toyota trucks uses the same exact compressor, TV-14 I think is what it is. I'll look into a rebuild kit for that I guess. Thanks for the idea!

Yeah I definitely want flush all the components. I want this system to be as like-new as possible.

Thanks for your input!

Pete_89T2 · 07-11-2013, 09:53 AM

If ES12 is the same stuff I think it is, it's based on propane/butane. Check with someone more knowlegeable than the evil forum on that since flamable stuff in the AC just sounds like a bad idea.

t_g_farrell · 07-11-2013, 09:47 AM

Looks like most of the obvious has been covered. New soft lines ARE required if this was an
R12 system before and you go with newer coolant like R134.

Speaking of coolant, I've used R152a (DustOff in the can from staples) in my wifes BMW
over a year ago when I replaced the compressor due to its demise after 140K miles. Its
still working great, no leaks, no issues and it performs as well as R12 and a lot better than
the R134 that was in there before. Plus its dirt cheap compared to the R134 or any other
coolant out there especially when Staples puts it on sale. Theres a sticky on the evil
forum first gen section that has a detailed discussion about the merits and the tech
data posted up about its temp/pressure characteristics.

I'm also reinstalling the AC on my SA and it will get the DustOff treatment as well. My
lines are being made as we speak.

speedjunkie · 07-11-2013, 10:55 AM

^I'm going to take it to a shop to have them leak test it and charge it rather than doing that myself. I want to make sure it's good. They were saying use the industrial ES-12 for the coldest air. And some of those guys are using it already, so I'm assuming it's not the same stuff you're thinking of lol. But maybe it is, who knows.

First I need to find out what my system used. I never charged it so I have no idea. It's a 94 Touring and after looking at the FSM I believe I have the MANA system as opposed to Nippon Denso, going off of which dryer/separator I have anyway.

How in the hell do you charge it with Dustoff? LOL I'll have to look that up.

t_g_farrell · 07-11-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedjunkie

How in the hell do you charge it with Dustoff? LOL I'll have to look that up.

Requires a vampire type tool that punctures and seals the can so you can hold
it and hook it up to your AC charging hose setup.

Looks like this:

07-10-2013, 01:25 PM	#1
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	Re-installing air conditioning I removed my AC back in 2008 when I put my VMIC in, since it was going to take longer than I wanted to spend at the time to mount everything back in there, due to the different angle of the condenser and so forth. But after looking at everything it doesn't look like it will be that bad. I'm gathering all the pieces to put my AC back in, and I know I need to replace the separator so I already ordered one from Ray, but I'm wondering what else I should replace. I have all the pieces, although my condenser is pretty beat up, but I got another one of those. Also, I didn't close off my lines going into the evaporator (that stick out through the firewall into the engine bay), so I'm not sure how much dirt and crud is inside there now and I'd like to make sure it's cleaned out inside. I'm pulling the dash to get the heater core fixed so I can have heat again too, so while I'm in there I'm going to take out the evaporator and clean it up like I've seen on some other threads recently (Theorie lol). My compressor is pretty nasty but I'm going to clean it up and make sure it's good. I'm just wondering about any seals in there, if I should replace them. I asked Ray about a rebuild kit for the compressor but Mazda no longer has them. I also asked about an o-ring kit for the lines but it would be $60+ for all those from Mazda so I'll buy a kit from a parts store. So far I've checked to make sure the lines clear the single turbo and that I'll have room for the separator next to the VMIC, and amazingly enough it looks like all that will work. I'll have to bend the lines a bit so it will hook up to the condenser in it's new orientation, and I'll have to cut holes or slots or something in the ducting for the lines to go through, but I'm not too worried about that. I do remembering practically having to pull the engine to get the compressor out since the mounting bolts are so long, but I figure I'll just put them through the holes and then mount it instead of trying to hold it up and then slide the bolts through. One thing that just crossed my mind...my AC/PS bracket is powdercoated, I'm hoping the compressor doesn't need to be grounded to that. If so, I'll have to take off some of the coating. I'm also going to heat wrap the hard lines going past the turbo. I know it probably doesn't matter functionally, but it will also help to cover up the ugliness of the lines since they're dinged up in a few places lol. I'm going to take off the black foam that came on them, it's all dry and brittle anyway. Anything else you guys can think of that I need to check? I don't want to be pulling and replacing stuff because something's leaking or whatever. I want to install this stuff and be done with it. Last edited by speedjunkie; 07-10-2013 at 01:32 PM..

07-10-2013, 02:31 PM	#2
GySgtFrank Professional Stick Poker Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Stafford, Ks. iTrader: (0) Posts: 1,005 Rep Power: 15	I had new lines made for my SA down at the local shop that builds hydraulic lines. Pretty cheap actually. Mine were dry rotted and blown out, but it might be realtively cheap insurance on yours to replace them, since they're getting pretty old by now if they're still the stock lines. __________________ 1979 SA22C (parts of one anyway) http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ad.php?t=15585 1975 MG Midget (building) http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ad.php?t=18681 1988 N/A SE model FC, dead stock and less than 85k on the clock. This one actually runs, so I don't fuck with it.

07-10-2013, 04:32 PM	#4
GySgtFrank Professional Stick Poker Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Stafford, Ks. iTrader: (0) Posts: 1,005 Rep Power: 15	Yeah, mine are mostly flexible so more vulnerable to rot than yours. __________________ 1979 SA22C (parts of one anyway) http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ad.php?t=15585 1975 MG Midget (building) http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ad.php?t=18681 1988 N/A SE model FC, dead stock and less than 85k on the clock. This one actually runs, so I don't fuck with it.

07-10-2013, 08:12 PM	#6
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	seals would be a good idea. or a bucket of ice and a 12v fan __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

07-10-2013, 10:35 PM	#8
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	at all the connection points. those little o-rings __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

07-10-2013, 03:51 PM	#3
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	Well most of the line is aluminum hard line. Or are you talking about the flexible portions? Those parts are in pretty good shape, it's just the aluminum portions are dirty and dinged up so I was going to cover them, but I at least wanted to clean them out inside too. I'll look over the flexible portions of the lines though. Thanks for your input, Gunny!

07-10-2013, 07:40 PM	#5
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	I looked at the lines real quick and they looked alright, but I'm going to inspect them more in depth. I also cleaned the compressor and I found 3 of the 4 mounting bolts. ARGH!!!! lol I have so many parts, I have to have another one somewhere.

07-10-2013, 10:19 PM	#7
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	Seals in the compressor? Nah I'd rather have AC back in lol. I've dreaded this project for the last few years, but I'm actually kinda looking forward to it now.

07-11-2013, 01:07 AM	#9
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	Yeah that's what I was talking about in my first post. For all the little orings from Mazda it would have been $60+ Ray said. I can get a whole kit from O'Reilly for $13 lol.

07-11-2013, 05:14 AM	#10
Pete_89T2 Lifetime Rotorhead Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Elkton, MD iTrader: (1) Posts: 874 Rep Power: 15	I'm by no means an A/C expert, but I picked up a few good tips from this automotive A/C forum I found online when my FC's A/C crapped out and was in need of some repairs: http://www.autoacforum.com/ Couple of tips I would suggest are: (a) Replace all the O-rings in the lines (b) Install a new receiver/dryer (c) Replace all the soft lines, especially if you're switching over from R12 to the R134 refrigerant. (Soft lines made for R12 won't contain R134 over the long term because the R134 molecules are a lot smaller than R12, go figure!) (d) If you can find a rebuild kit, I'd replace all the seals/soft parts in the compressor. The A/C forum can probably help you here because the Nippon Denso or Sanden compressors that were used on the FB/FC/FD's are common to a lots of other cars, and the repair/rebuild kits should still be available Look for a part # or ID tag on your compressor to try to figure out what you have as a starting point. Another thing I'd suggest since your A/C has been open to the elements for a long time is flushing all the components you'll be reusing (evaporator core, condenser, hard lines, etc.) with the appropriate solvent for whatever refrigerant & oil you had in there or plan to use when you close it up. This is another area I'd seek out better advice though, because there are chemical compatibility gotcha's to deal with. Good luck with the A/C work.

07-11-2013, 08:12 AM	#11
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	a) Definitely getting a seal kit b) Ordered a new dryer from Ray Crowe, ~$150 YIKES! Would have been $200+ without Ray's discount, he's the man! c) I was reading a thread on the evil forum and the guys were saying ES-12 gets way colder than R134a and is pretty similar to R12. d) Someone in that thread also said that one of the Toyota trucks uses the same exact compressor, TV-14 I think is what it is. I'll look into a rebuild kit for that I guess. Thanks for the idea! Yeah I definitely want flush all the components. I want this system to be as like-new as possible. Thanks for your input!

07-11-2013, 09:53 AM	#12
Pete_89T2 Lifetime Rotorhead Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Elkton, MD iTrader: (1) Posts: 874 Rep Power: 15	If ES12 is the same stuff I think it is, it's based on propane/butane. Check with someone more knowlegeable than the evil forum on that since flamable stuff in the AC just sounds like a bad idea.

07-11-2013, 09:47 AM	#13
t_g_farrell Waffles - hmmm good Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntersville, NC iTrader: (0) Posts: 757 Rep Power: 0	Looks like most of the obvious has been covered. New soft lines ARE required if this was an R12 system before and you go with newer coolant like R134. Speaking of coolant, I've used R152a (DustOff in the can from staples) in my wifes BMW over a year ago when I replaced the compressor due to its demise after 140K miles. Its still working great, no leaks, no issues and it performs as well as R12 and a lot better than the R134 that was in there before. Plus its dirt cheap compared to the R134 or any other coolant out there especially when Staples puts it on sale. Theres a sticky on the evil forum first gen section that has a detailed discussion about the merits and the tech data posted up about its temp/pressure characteristics. I'm also reinstalling the AC on my SA and it will get the DustOff treatment as well. My lines are being made as we speak. __________________ 1980 GS stockport, Fat Nikki, RB Dual Facetfuel pumps, Holley regulator, RB Street port exhaust, 2GDFIS, MR2 MK I electric fans, 2G strut bar, relayed fans, lights and fuel pump, LEDs Project Fat Nikki Budget 12A rebuild Video setup < $30.00

07-11-2013, 10:55 AM	#14
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	^I'm going to take it to a shop to have them leak test it and charge it rather than doing that myself. I want to make sure it's good. They were saying use the industrial ES-12 for the coldest air. And some of those guys are using it already, so I'm assuming it's not the same stuff you're thinking of lol. But maybe it is, who knows. First I need to find out what my system used. I never charged it so I have no idea. It's a 94 Touring and after looking at the FSM I believe I have the MANA system as opposed to Nippon Denso, going off of which dryer/separator I have anyway. How in the hell do you charge it with Dustoff? LOL I'll have to look that up.