Drifting, hellaflush, slammed, tire stretch blog/bash thread.

[TitaniumTT]

This thread is here for one reason and one reason only....... So the people who want to argue, CAN ARGUE! Do/say whatever you want in this thread, but do it in this thread ONLY!! Venturing out to other parts of the forum for the sole purpose of argueing will result in time outs. Lounge rules apply here. Call each other names, bash each other to high holy hell it's all fair game. If you get butt-hurt easily, I suggest you stay away because I will ONLY take action regarding a post if it breaks the following rules. Racial comments, attacks on the staff, and attacks on the forum will NOT be tolerated and will result in a Perma-Ban.

So, now that we are all in understanding.... let the games begin.

Allow me to start it off......



Those wheels don't fit in the front.... periord. The reason they don't fit in the front is becuase you have to run the wrong size tire to make them fit. Therefore the package doesn't fit properly. Put that rim in the rear with the right size tire on it. The right size being a 255 or BIGGER. I run 17x8 +35 F with a 235 tire and the tire is too small IMO.

And even a pull wouldn't get that to fit. You would need to run overfenders and cut ALOT of sheetmetal out to make it fit properly.

And even putting that 17x9+25 with a 255 in the rear would be DAMN close. I run a 17x9+35 with a 255 in the rear and when I FULLY compress the suspension it BARELY clears without a roll. I plan on running 275 in the rear next year and they WILL hit with that offset, but in reality, with the suspension I have, it SHOULDN'T touch.

The way to check to see if something actually fits is to remove the spring and fully compress and fully extend the suspension. If there is no contact, thedn it fits.

This is fact, not to be debated. There are cheats and shortcuts I will admit. But to say that wheel fits in the front is WRONG

[vex]

[EJayCe996]

Physics - the science that deals with matter, energy, motion, and force.

So then that means

Physics = Theory
and thus is now ruled an irrelevant topic in this discussion.

[vex]

I didn't have an opportunity to respond before the thread was edited to remove anything that was said. I glanced at your response but didn't have a computer handy to respond or look at your links.

I'd be glad to look at the links you posted if you want to forward them. I'm seriously not just trying to piss you off, you seem like an intelligent guy... Your argument is just lacking detail in "real world" application.

There again attempting to say that what I'm stating is outside the realm of applied science. Look at the links. This is applied science. This is real world.

You aren't willing to bend in the argument at all even to see my perspective, on the other hand I have adjusted my statements to clarify what I'm looking for and you're still shutting me down seemingly without really reading what I'm saying and focusing more on each sentence as it's own argument.

Because that's how you read. Line upon line, sentence upon sentence.

Please slow down and read what I'm saying, I really would like this to be clarified (be it in front of the forum or not).

I've never been a "follow the rules" kind of guy. From my experience in the world I find most things are over-engineered if they're mass produced and can cause death in the hands of the general public.

From this stance alone you have really no understanding of how mechanics works do you?

In my experience tires are manufactured so that the sidewall holds up LONG after the tread is gone. In some cases 4 times longer.

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/11/10504/html/usa/retread.htm

Retreading reuseses the sidewall for 3 to 4 times before it's weak enough to justify replacement. At that rate even if a stretched sidewall lasts 50% less time it would still "safe" because it will outlast the tread.

See above picture. Does it look like that sidewall lasted 50% as long as normal tire?

If you can show me how this dramatically effects the tire (in a real world application way) I'll stop using stretched tires. I'm not unreasonable, and I'm not saying the science you're using is bad, wrong, or anything else. I agree that the concepts you're talking about are sound.

I'd hope so considering that it's how the tire company does it. Whether or not you continue to kick against the pricks is your call.

That doesn't show me how badly this negatively effects the tire. Based on information I have the negative effects would have to go over 50% decreased life to pose a threat of danger. If you're unable to do the math just say that and we will move on. You have repeatedly asked me for specifics and offered to clarify and they threw it in my face when I clarified or asked for specifics.

Such as what? I answered everything you posed to me to my knowledge. I've told you I'm not going to do the math as it's a waste of my time. You're free to do whatever you want.

If you're in the same boat as me (or anyone else on the forum for that matter) and don't feel confident in your math then just say that and we can move on. But your implying that you can do it, and from the informed argument you're making I think it's possible you might be able. I don't care if you throw some constants in to make it easier. I.E. loading the tire at 1g lateral for the life of the tire, or whatever. I just wanted some sort of math to back up the theory even if it's only a guestimation. Currently I've got nothing.

So in other words what you're asking for is some sort of math that you aren't sure you will understand or know if it is accurate or if it even reflects reality. Which begs the question; why?

[Rotary no Densetsu]

So I just read through this whole thread.

And I 100% understand why no one takes drifting serious now. I am so sad.

[TitaniumTT]

Something along the lines of a select few ruin it for the rest?

[josh18_2k]

that tire (probably) died from underinflation. seen plenty of those pics

[josh18_2k]

heres the firestone report
http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/~sanjay/R...WEB_Secure.PDF

couple snippets from the first page:

...there are no well
established criteria for in-service tire failures against which tire components
are designed.

...while
one can and does perform many standard laboratory tests on tires and their
components it is not clear how these are related to in-service failures.

not looking so good for "this is fact, not theory"

[RotorDad]

I have a few of these Emails from different tire manufactures.
Thank you for contacting Michelin
Monday, December 27, 2010 7:06 PM
From:
"Michelin Consumer Care" <conrel.en@michelin.epowercenterdirect.com>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
rotordad@yahoo.com

December 27, 2010

Hello Chris,

Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.



Mounting a tire on the incorrect size rim could be dangerous and a safety issue. We strongly discourage it.



While there is nothing on our website at this time related to mounting tires on the incorrect rim size, we would be more than happy to answer any questions you may have if you call us at the number listed below.



We appreciate your business.



Please call us at 1-800-642-4354 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 8:30AM and 4:30PM Eastern Time on Saturday.

Sincerely,

Sherry Cooper


Consumer Care Department
Certified Michelin Product Expert

PS: It's important that you get all the safety-related materials that come with the purchase of new Michelin passenger and light truck tires. If you did not receive a warranty book, you can download one at www.michelinman.com/warranty/. If you did not register your tires, please take a moment to do so at www.michelinman.com. Registering your tires is easy and takes just a minute.

Participate in our survey to become eligible to win a Michelin Man bobble head doll! A random drawing will take place at the end of each month. The winner will be contacted via e-mail to verify the shipping address.


Paste the line below into your browser:

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(Please include the line below if you reply to this email.)


Case number: 2587883

[josh18_2k]

yah thats the same blanket statement seen on all the tire manufacturer's websites. what people want to see is something empirical. ie, not just a CYA policy

[RotorDad]

Well I sent them an email directly about tire stretching, if you don't like the response they gave call the number provided to get a better idea. I am willing to bet they have more experience & have betters ways to test then any of us. No need to dance around the issue, just because you can make something fit doesn't mean it's right. If it is suggested by the tire companies not to mount tires on wheels outside their recommendations there must be a reason. You say people want to see something more specific, that's fine I understand. Now on the other hand how about this? Where is the proof of the opposite, since it all seems to be the non stretched tire guys providing some sort of info.

[josh18_2k]

i guess proof of the opposite is the lack of failure. no one has yet to find any account of a tire failing due to stretch. there are a few scattered failures, but most are due to underinflation, hitting potholes, or otherwise undetermined. if it is in fact an issue, there should be evidence of it in drifting. if a stretched tire is going to fail due to the stretch, that seems like the most likely venue


also should be noted that the burden of proof is on the dont-stretch side. evidence for something not happening is infinite.

[RotorDad]

Originally Posted by josh18_2k

i guess proof of the opposite is the lack of failure. no one has yet to find any account of a tire failing due to stretch. there are a few scattered failures, but most are due to underinflation, hitting potholes, or otherwise undetermined. if it is in fact an issue, there should be evidence of it in drifting. if a stretched tire is going to fail due to the stretch, that seems like the most likely venue


also should be noted that the burden of proof is on the dont-stretch side. evidence for something not happening is infinite.

To see that some but not all the professionals do it leads me to believe that it could go either way. Well let's say okay it's good for drifting on the track, that's not where I have an issue. The use of Hipari style tires on a daily basis is where I have questions. When I go to the track I use a different wheel & tire combo then what I drive around on, as do most of my friends. So why do a lot of these so called drifter boys insult others for not slamming the car & stretching the tires on a vehicle not intended for drifting. I'm not trying to shit on anyone, just simply saying tire stretching is impractical for everyday street use. Just as I would not run my slicks on a regular basis even though they work & hold up at the track.

[Mazdabater]

My contribution to this thread.

If you really think tyre stretching is a good thing then


You're a fucking idiot.

It also looks bad.

Enjoy!

Also found this linked on another forum

And perhaps one should contact their insurance provider and ask them if a claim would still be valid when they find stretched tyres after you prang your car?

http://www.aus300zx.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290328

[Rotary no Densetsu]

The accident in the thread posted above wasn't due to stretch. It was just a tire blow out. Shit happens all the time.

I'm not defending tire stretch, nor do I think it's MAD TYTE ILL

Just sayin'