Dual EGTs

[speedjunkie]

I'm looking at getting a dual EGT gauge setup. I wouldn't mind datalogging either, but for now I'll be happy with just gauges. I've seen the setup by Pineapple Racing...

http://www.pineappleracing.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=24

...but is there any reason not to go with this setup instead?

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=4861

I don't know what all the Pineapple Racing setup comes with, but it looks like the one from Pegasus comes with everything I need, but I don't know cause I've never installed this before. Maybe I'll want probes that react faster or something, but I don't know for sure. I don't even know what exactly each of these comes with as far as quality of probe. I also know of the SPAL gauges...

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=2942

But $500 is a little out of my price range right now, and I don't need it to be digital anyway. I saw something at the last SEMA that would work too I think, but I don't remember the name of the company now. From what I remember the gauge itself is a datalogger.

Any ideas?

[vex]

Originally Posted by speedjunkie

I'm looking at getting a dual EGT gauge setup. I wouldn't mind datalogging either, but for now I'll be happy with just gauges. I've seen the setup by Pineapple Racing...

http://www.pineappleracing.com/index...PROD&ProdID=24

...but is there any reason not to go with this setup instead?

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...asp?RecID=4861

I don't know what all the Pineapple Racing setup comes with, but it looks like the one from Pegasus comes with everything I need, but I don't know cause I've never installed this before. Maybe I'll want probes that react faster or something, but I don't know for sure. I don't even know what exactly each of these comes with as far as quality of probe. I also know of the SPAL gauges...

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...asp?RecID=2942

But $500 is a little out of my price range right now, and I don't need it to be digital anyway. I saw something at the last SEMA that would work too I think, but I don't remember the name of the company now. From what I remember the gauge itself is a datalogger.

Any ideas?

Honestly... didn't I just go through this? There's a few ways you can go. The pineapple racing one does come with everything you need and is very high quality. Also pay particular attention to the scale of your EGT. The pegasus auto racing one you listed is pretty good but is maxed out at 1800F which is kind of low for my tastes. The pineapple racing one maxes out a little after 2000F which is perfect for a rotary. (Remember under WOT 2000F is not unheard of) This leaves you with some options, so long as you don't have the EGT's that will surpass 1800 you should be fine with either or (thought pineapple is cheaper).

Now if you have the realestate you can get two gauges to actually do this. This is the route I did because I wanted peak/warn functions as well. This way I wouldn't have to look at them 24/7 when driving to see if I'm close to the limit. I could just set the alarm and look at it when something's not running right. For that, I went with two prosport gauges. I found after discount that going that route cost LESS than going with Pineapple. But that's up to you.

[proz07]

my opinion is a gauge is too slow and inaccurate and should only be used as a reference once tunned.

now you said you want dual and datalogging.... HC(howard colman) on the 7club has a great thread on exactly this. dual digital datalogging egt setup for something like 120$ish im planning on going that route just not till i put the single on.... hmmmm better go order the parts as im almost ready to do that.

z


i really need to start doiong theseand bringing a thread over here so we have more tech info>>>>>>

[speedjunkie]

Originally Posted by vex

Honestly... didn't I just go through this? There's a few ways you can go. The pineapple racing one does come with everything you need and is very high quality. Also pay particular attention to the scale of your EGT. The pegasus auto racing one you listed is pretty good but is maxed out at 1800F which is kind of low for my tastes. The pineapple racing one maxes out a little after 2000F which is perfect for a rotary. (Remember under WOT 2000F is not unheard of) This leaves you with some options, so long as you don't have the EGT's that will surpass 1800 you should be fine with either or (thought pineapple is cheaper).

Now if you have the realestate you can get two gauges to actually do this. This is the route I did because I wanted peak/warn functions as well. This way I wouldn't have to look at them 24/7 when driving to see if I'm close to the limit. I could just set the alarm and look at it when something's not running right. For that, I went with two prosport gauges. I found after discount that going that route cost LESS than going with Pineapple. But that's up to you.

Look again, the cheaper one goes up to 2000* too, that's why I was wondering what the difference was. It even says right there on the page it goes to 2000* haha. And the Pineapple one goes up to 2000* and stops as well. And I don't really have the real estate, that's why I want to fit it into 1 gauge. I have 5 STRI gauges and 1 wideband already, I'm already going to have to add a spot to put this one haha.

Originally Posted by proz07

my opinion is a gauge is too slow and inaccurate and should only be used as a reference once tunned.

now you said you want dual and datalogging.... HC(howard colman) on the 7club has a great thread on exactly this. dual digital datalogging egt setup for something like 120$ish im planning on going that route just not till i put the single on.... hmmmm better go order the parts as im almost ready to do that.

z


i really need to start doiong theseand bringing a thread over here so we have more tech info>>>>>>

Yeah I've been reading the hell out of MANY of Howard's threads, he's very knowledgeable. My only problem is from what I've gathered on his datalog setup so far, it's kinda out of my league. I fear I'd mess something up trying to do it like him. And I'd like to at least go the gauge route first and add the datalog later, and take the datalog part slowly so I do it right the first time. Know what I mean?

[proz07]

ya i get it at least you know where your limit is unlike most people. seems your on the right track for whats gonna work for you.

z

[classicauto]

For logging and speed, Ludwig has recommended these probes to me:

http://tscsensors.com/egtep0720001ssnexhau.html

They also list another interesting one:

http://tscsensors.com/egtip0720000ssnindividu.html


You'll need a convertor of some type though to allow the millivolts of the TC to be translated into a 0-5v signal for an ECU or logger to read. You basically have to choose between a guage, or logging though since there's no way to split the signal off of one probe to do both jobs.

The pineapple unit is good, I never had any real problems with it. I'm running two prosport EGT's at the moment though which are working well. Can't comment on their speed vs. a "true exposed" tip TC (Prosport TC's **appear** to be exposed, or what some companies sell as exposed) but they are faster then the pineapple unit, that is for sure.

[vex]

Originally Posted by classicauto

For logging and speed, Ludwig has recommended these probes to me:

http://tscsensors.com/egtep0720001ssnexhau.html

They also list another interesting one:

http://tscsensors.com/egtip0720000ssnindividu.html


You'll need a convertor of some type though to allow the millivolts of the TC to be translated into a 0-5v signal for an ECU or logger to read. You basically have to choose between a guage, or logging though since there's no way to split the signal off of one probe to do both jobs.

Could probably do an Op-Amp circuit (which I plan on doing with my wideband), or running a conversion box to 0-5v then to an op-amp to split the signal.

The pineapple unit is good, I never had any real problems with it. I'm running two prosport EGT's at the moment though which are working well. Can't comment on their speed vs. a "true exposed" tip TC (Prosport TC's **appear** to be exposed, or what some companies sell as exposed) but they are faster then the pineapple unit, that is for sure.

[Barry Bordes]

The PLX units are $120 each with the signal conditioning box, but if you need the gauge it is another $250. The gauge supports up to four boxes.
The EGTs can be just datalogged without a gauge and shown as a MAP WATCH on your computer screen.
Barry

[speedjunkie]

Originally Posted by classicauto

For logging and speed, Ludwig has recommended these probes to me:

http://tscsensors.com/egtep0720001ssnexhau.html

They also list another interesting one:

http://tscsensors.com/egtip0720000ssnindividu.html


You'll need a convertor of some type though to allow the millivolts of the TC to be translated into a 0-5v signal for an ECU or logger to read. You basically have to choose between a guage, or logging though since there's no way to split the signal off of one probe to do both jobs.

The pineapple unit is good, I never had any real problems with it. I'm running two prosport EGT's at the moment though which are working well. Can't comment on their speed vs. a "true exposed" tip TC (Prosport TC's **appear** to be exposed, or what some companies sell as exposed) but they are faster then the pineapple unit, that is for sure.

Alright cool, I'll check those out. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Barry Bordes

The PLX units are $120 each with the signal conditioning box, but if you need the gauge it is another $250. The gauge supports up to four boxes.
The EGTs can be just datalogged without a gauge and shown as a MAP WATCH on your computer screen.
Barry

Yeah, PLX was the other place I was thinking of, I couldn't think of the name. Hmmm.

[howard coleman]

preturbo EGTs are extremely helpful for setting your timing curve. post turbo EGTs are a waste of time and effort.

EGTs need to be digital and logged. as an example i had been doing a number of dyno runs and focusing on 1550-1600 at one bar on up.

i looked at my 0 to one bar EGTs and found them to be in the 1200s.... even though my AFRs were fine.

we added timing in that area and brought the EGTs up to the high 1400s and picked up a bunch of midrange... all the while the AFRs did not change.

your really would never been able to do that watching a gauge... BTW, i have had some experience w Greddy EGT gauges (2) and found them to be slow acting and not accurate. i literally gave them away for shipping.

fixturing a proper EGT setup is neither difficult nor expensive but you do need a Power FC/Datalogit or something similar.

howard coleman

[Phoenix7]

I was looking at pineapple too but like Howard Coleman says for proper tuning you need to be able to log the pre-turbo temps. Also, Mazda claims that engine damage is likely with EGTs over 1500 degrees, can anyone confirm that?

[vex]

Originally Posted by Phoenix7

I was looking at pineapple too but like Howard Coleman says for proper tuning you need to be able to log the pre-turbo temps. Also, Mazda claims that engine damage is likely with EGTs over 1500 degrees, can anyone confirm that?

I have never ever even heard that before. Got a link or a paper about it?

[speedjunkie]

Originally Posted by howard coleman

preturbo EGTs are extremely helpful for setting your timing curve. post turbo EGTs are a waste of time and effort.

EGTs need to be digital and logged. as an example i had been doing a number of dyno runs and focusing on 1550-1600 at one bar on up.

i looked at my 0 to one bar EGTs and found them to be in the 1200s.... even though my AFRs were fine.

we added timing in that area and brought the EGTs up to the high 1400s and picked up a bunch of midrange... all the while the AFRs did not change.

your really would never been able to do that watching a gauge... BTW, i have had some experience w Greddy EGT gauges (2) and found them to be slow acting and not accurate. i literally gave them away for shipping.

fixturing a proper EGT setup is neither difficult nor expensive but you do need a Power FC/Datalogit or something similar.

howard coleman

Yeah Sean at A-Spec is putting a couple bungs in for me just after the exhaust flange, and your threads on the other forum is actually why I'm doing it haha. I never really thought about monitoring EGTs before, much less datalogging them. I have a PFC and datalogit at the moment, but I'm not real clear on everything needed to datalog. Is there some way I can hook that up through the datalogit? I'll read up on your thread again before I do the job. Thanks HC!

Originally Posted by Phoenix7

I was looking at pineapple too but like Howard Coleman says for proper tuning you need to be able to log the pre-turbo temps. Also, Mazda claims that engine damage is likely with EGTs over 1500 degrees, can anyone confirm that?

Uh oh, I hope that's not true.

[Phoenix7]

yeah, it WAS part of the Mazdaspeed knowledge base:
http://www.mazdaspeedkb.com/activekb/index.php

But they removed their articles.....so no, that's why I was looking for confirmation.

[howard coleman]

EGT thermocouple wire hooks to converter module. module generates 0-5 V readings which you wire to the Auxiliary side of your datalogit just like your wideband and other inputs. you then get the conversion table and input two voltages and their respective F temperatures and go logging. very basic and extremely helpful. i log fuel pressure, exhaust back pressure, two EGTs and AFR. since you have the Datalogit, your cost is around $50 for a Teamrip thermocouple and less than $50 for the converter and some wire.

preturbo EGT should be 1550 to 1625

hc